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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think going to a church service when atheist is not that big a deal?

188 replies

parentsvsPIL · 16/04/2017 09:26

My atheist parents take their religion-bashing quite seriously. They make Richard Dawkins look nuanced.

DH and I sing in the local church choir, since it's a good choir, there aren't any other good choirs locally, and we are generally fine with the broad principles being espoused by the church, though we are not believers. It is made fairly explicit that church musicians are not required to be anything more than tolerant of religion.

My family is currently visiting. It being Easter, there's lots of nice music happening at the church, done by our choir. My family loves music and would typically go to anything on offer.

Family have refused outright to allow my niece to go to any of it as they don't want people forcing religion on her. My parents have also refused to go to any of it. My siblings have gone to one service and made lots of comments about being "forced to pray" (we're talking Anglican evensong here, not Billy Graham... they weren't forced to do anything!)

Is this really that big a deal? Well, it clearly is for them, but we just don't get what harm they think it's going to do... Confused

OP posts:
Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 16/04/2017 10:23

I can see your point then, it's a fairly daft time for a visit if they were forewarned. My mum is often annoying like that too- for example insisting on visiting on a specific couple of days despite being told I've got long-standing unavoidable work commitments so I can't book leave and we will all be out of the house 7am-6.30pm both days. Seeing as she has 363 other possible days every year to visit it does get irritating, especially when she complains she's not seen us much Confused but I've found the best way to deal with it is just to repeat that I did warn her in advance and leave her to it with the local tourist maps and food in the fridge.
Hope you have a lovely Easter anyway.

MrsJayy · 16/04/2017 10:24

I am an Athiest but if 1 of my children were singing in a church choir and it was a special service I would go.

SpringerS · 16/04/2017 10:25

Seriously? You want them to go to church on their holiday weekend? Your sibling went once but even that's not good enough for you? Maybe church isn't extremely boring to you but it is to most people. Music only makes the boring shite last longer. If it was just going to be a musical event than you wouldn't be unreasonable but if it's got boring service in between. Then you are being unreasonable to be annoyed especially at your poor sibling who already went once.

I can just about manage to go to weddings/baptisms/funerals and even at that my skin crawls. Though tbf, the CoE aren't the vile, evil organisation that the RCC is and they don't discriminate against me and my family on a daily basis in the way that the RCC does. But I feel very uncomfortable at religious services of any kind. I don't think I could catch religion, but I dislike how they make me feel and I'm honestly happier cleaning up dog poo than I am in any sort of church. And I certainly wouldn't impose attendance on my son and spoil what it one of his favourite weekends of the year by making him be horribly bored for part of the day.

LurkingHusband · 16/04/2017 10:26

They sound quite insecure in their non-belief.

For some reason I remember being at school, and going to church was considered "cissy", so the tough lads had to over compensate their disdain for church by going to the other extreme.

Which is fair enough, but a political view, not a religious one...
Just as valid either way, surely?

Of course. But it's a little disingenuous - and maybe a tad dishonest - to say you won't go to a church because of your lack of religious beliefs, rather than because of your adherence to political ones. It's like people who claim that a tradition, or requirement is "religious" when it isn't - just a cultural norm.

To a real atheist, a church, mosque, synagogue, gurdwara is just a building - nothing more, nothing less. Nothing special at all.

Dozer · 16/04/2017 10:27

They are not showing intolerance towards OP's views though. They are simply declining to attend religious services.

Some posters are arguing that they should set aside their strong preferences and attend to support OP: that's not an argument about tolerance.

Dozer · 16/04/2017 10:29

Eh, so atheists who do not wish to attend religious services are not REAL atheists?! Confused

Bollocks.

EdwardElric · 16/04/2017 10:30

Lurking I don't have any objection to the building and would happily attend a concert held in a church or temple or mosque but wouldn't attend a service.
Also wouldn't have come to visit at Easter when I knew they would be busy at services though.
I am not anti-religion but will not participate in worship and that is how I see attending a service

Emphasise · 16/04/2017 10:31

Whatever your own views is it not just good occasionally (once in 10 years!) to set them aside because it makes someone else happy.

I dont like a sport dh likes but it makes him happy if we go as a family so once in a while I do. I was talking to a friend yesterday who's wife is very involved in the church. He doesn't believe and doesn't usually go, but Easter is important to her so he'll be accompanying her today.

If not, why do those who wouldn't usually go near a church go to a wedding? How is a church concert where your dc are performing different?

SmileEachDay · 16/04/2017 10:32

I'm loving the idea that aethiests should prove how secure in their rationale they are by attending church services 😂

mavis with respect, you have a very narrow view of aethiesm. And religion, actually.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 16/04/2017 10:32

Exactly Lurking that's totally the way I feel about it and why I'm happy to let the DCs decide. I'm actually not anti-religion if it works as a force for good- life's tough and if it helps someone to cope personally then that's fine by me, (provided they don't keep trying to convert me) but to me it's just not plausible.

Emphasise · 16/04/2017 10:33

They are being intolerant dozer. It's a concert they would enjoy in any other circumstances but they're refusing to go because of the religious views of some of the performers.

Dozer · 16/04/2017 10:35

OP says they like church music: this may or may not actually be the case. The religious views of the performers isn't the issue, but that to hear the music one must also be present for and listen to a religious service.

That's not intolerance.

Crispsheets · 16/04/2017 10:35

I wouldn't go to a church service and that includes weddings .

LurkingHusband · 16/04/2017 10:35

Lurking I don't have any objection to the building and would happily attend a concert held in a church or temple or mosque but wouldn't attend a service.

Wouldn't bother me. But then I like science fiction audiobooks too Grin.

Of course, it may offend someone else in the congregation that there's an atheist who doesn't believe a word (which is not true. I'm quite keen on the bits about being nice to each other ...) ... which is then a dilemma. AIBU for insisting on attending a church service when I know my atheism may offend the devout ??? How about if I snuck in and kept my atheism quiet so they didn't know I was an atheist ? (Presumably their God knows ?).

This weeks moral maze was bought to you by the pages of Mumsnet

AwaywiththePixies27 · 16/04/2017 10:36

People get strangely possessive of their religions. The Ex is RC so DD was baptised RC many many moons ago now. DM (Pentecostal) was most put out that I hadn't chosen to have her dedicated instead, at a church we didnt even go to Confused

I haven't been to church in years now. My DM is at hers whenever she gets the chance. I've often met her there. Ive managed not to be brainwashed back into it. They're there as a guest and I don't see no harm in it but alas you can draw a horse to water and all that.

SmileEachDay · 16/04/2017 10:36

Emphsise they aren't going because of their non belief.

It's not dissimilar to asking a Christian to attend service at the worship place of a different religion. How many would be totally fine going to service at a mosque or a synagogue. Or a pagan fertility ceremony?

AwaywiththePixies27 · 16/04/2017 10:38

Sorry. Just wanted to point out that yes I know atheism is not a religion.Blush

But no OP it wouldn't hurt them to go to the concert but at the same time you can't force them. I have a BIL who's a staunch atheist he wouldn't come to our wedding. His choice.

ElisavetaFartsonira · 16/04/2017 10:38

If your parents don't want to go that's up to them, but I'd have given the whining siblings short shrift with their forced to pray bullshit. Honestly, forced religious observance is a huge thing in this world. There are and have been in previous centuries many people who genuinely are forced to feign religious observance in order to live unmolested. Or sometimes just to live at all. Forced praying exists and is a gross human rights violation. Your siblings are basically co-opting that suffering. Eww.

LurkingHusband · 16/04/2017 10:39

Any atheists ever had the odd experience of debating with Christians who less about the Bible than you do ?

I am an atheist, but love history - and if you read lots and lots of history, you read lots and lots of bible stories, and canon to the extent of understanding the pun in let the dead bury the dead ...

Dozer · 16/04/2017 10:39

Many people, religious or not, are fine with attending other religious services. Others are not.

Either is fine IMO.

At the heart of this OP wants her family to put her wish for them to see her and her H's performance above their wish not to attend religious services.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 16/04/2017 10:39

smileeachday I'd be more than happy to go to a pagan fertility ceremony. My DM would have to hose me down with holy water though before I entered her home again Grin

SmileEachDay · 16/04/2017 10:41

Grin Away

BonnieF · 16/04/2017 10:42

I had religion forced down my throat throughout my childhood. Catholic indoctrination schools, mass at least every Sunday, confession, benediction etc etc. One Sunday when I was 15, I refused to go to mass and caused a major family row.

I have only ever grudgingly entered churches for weddings and funerals since. I hate the places and can't wait to leave. I do not donate to charities connected with religions.

Many atheists despise religion and want as little contact with it as possible.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 10:42

Not particularly a view on religion but charity. I can't be bothered with people making a Big Show either way (highly vocal religious types or athiests) then sitting back and watching volunteers and charity workers rolling up their sleeves. Fighting over who believes in what (and turning nasty as It often does) isn't actually doing anything is it? Where I worked nobody tried to convert me or lure me into a wee back room to beat out the devil.

If it makes the family happy fine, if it makes you unhappy, ok. No need to get into a fight over it or all hurty feelings. It's not like your auntie offering your small kids a shot of vodka or a ciggie.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 16/04/2017 10:45

Of course, it may offend someone else in the congregation that there's an atheist who doesn't believe a word
Ooh no I think they'd be over the moon, no point preaching to the converted as they say Grin
I go to church parade with my DCs as I don't believe in making them do something I'm not prepared to. I was brought up as a devout Anglican but like I say am definitely an atheist now. My beliefs are my business though I would share if asked. I guess most of the congregation just assume I'm from the 'nominally Christian but normally can't be arsed' brigade and don't ask.