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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think going to a church service when atheist is not that big a deal?

188 replies

parentsvsPIL · 16/04/2017 09:26

My atheist parents take their religion-bashing quite seriously. They make Richard Dawkins look nuanced.

DH and I sing in the local church choir, since it's a good choir, there aren't any other good choirs locally, and we are generally fine with the broad principles being espoused by the church, though we are not believers. It is made fairly explicit that church musicians are not required to be anything more than tolerant of religion.

My family is currently visiting. It being Easter, there's lots of nice music happening at the church, done by our choir. My family loves music and would typically go to anything on offer.

Family have refused outright to allow my niece to go to any of it as they don't want people forcing religion on her. My parents have also refused to go to any of it. My siblings have gone to one service and made lots of comments about being "forced to pray" (we're talking Anglican evensong here, not Billy Graham... they weren't forced to do anything!)

Is this really that big a deal? Well, it clearly is for them, but we just don't get what harm they think it's going to do... Confused

OP posts:
bananafish81 · 16/04/2017 13:46

I do love listening to hymns - just not being told I'm a crap friend if I don't join in. I love Church choral music to listen to - it's just not my thing to join in.

Bumpsadaisie · 16/04/2017 14:32

Most regular Anglicans themselves are there because they like the music Wink

Then I realised that in loving the music I was actually loving something transcendent. Then I met people whose idea of "God" was something other than "Omnipotent being sitting on cloud" which had been what I thought everyone believed up till then.

Im now a Christian.

Happy easter!

JacquesHammer · 16/04/2017 14:34

I'm an atheist. I don't go to church unless I can absolutely help it.

DD does their winter service in a church - its purely an arrangement of convenience surrounding space for the audience.

When I have been to the odd christening/wedding in a church I just tend to zone out and admire the architecture

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 14:58

But I'm sure you go with good grace and not sit there with a cats bum face hiding and puffing, grumbling is we your breath and telling everyone that they are idiots.

I like looking at the memorials and windows.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 14:59

My predictive text is getting very weird...

bananafish81 · 16/04/2017 15:04

I don't think anyone is an idiot for their beliefs

I just don't appreciate being told I'm a lesser being because I don't share the same beliefs

It somewhat takes the shine off a happy event when the guests who have come to celebrate a joyful event are berated because marriages aren't proper marriages and if they don't join in with the singing then clearly they don't want to show their love and support for their friends

I don't see why praising your own beliefs has to mean chastising those who've come into the house of worship to support their friends

I just wanted to sit quietly and enjoy the ceremony. I didn't expect the unbelievers to get called out as being crap in the service!

halobean · 16/04/2017 15:06

It is like a vegan going to an butchers. I guess a personal choice, but not something you would want to do unless you were forced to. Religion causes most of the conflict in the world, why would anyone want to be a part of that?

halobean · 16/04/2017 15:09

Also I think disgusting to indoctrinate children in the way personally. I would never let my children step foot in a church. They are taught the truth about religion and the harm it has done to soceity.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 15:19

I suppose I was brought up with a family who had a very dark and pass-taking sense of humour. It doesn't bother me what they think.

I was at a sermon (work thing had to go) where it was basically said that unbelievers who came to church were prostitutes. We were sniggering and guffawing in the back row and never let the (visiting) minister forget that we were the tarts from the office.

It's not indoctrination any more than taking a little girl to a Disney shop and showing her all the pink fluffy crap. You do discuss things with your kids do you? Tell them that some people do/say/believe/wear this or that because it's who they are? Do you tell them that it's ok to believe in God, just as it's ok not to? Or tell them disrespect and belittle other people's beliefs but expect them to respect to yours? Things just aren't that black and white.

FixItUpChappie · 16/04/2017 15:36

It's not bigoted to be an atheist and not want to attend church services.

^^This. They have personal values and beliefs of their own. Respect it and carry on without them.

FixItUpChappie · 16/04/2017 15:58

I'm sure my mother would love to take my kids to church, as is they've come home from visits confused about "God" and the baby Jesus Hmm. We are atheists it is our right, as it is yours, to raise our children in line with our beliefs and values. I won't let my mother take them to church because it is confusing and they are too young to understand and apply critical thinking to the situation. When they are older I may take them as a learning experience but it is perfectly acceptable to not seek out events that are entirely against our worldview. If there were atheist meeting houses I'm sure some religious folks wouldn't take their kids even if nice music was on offer.

GloriaGilbert · 16/04/2017 16:03

Churches can be an interesting cultural experience for non-believers. I find it hard to take people seriously when they are so quick to publicise their political agendas in this way.

It's not a big deal.

Dozer · 16/04/2017 16:40

OP's family are not "publicising" anything. They have declined OP's invitation to attend church services.

Dozer · 16/04/2017 16:41

If it's no big deal to attend, it's no big deal not to attend, as with any other activity.

RoseAndRose · 16/04/2017 17:37

"I'm an atheist and I would come to a service to listen to a family member singing

"BUT I'd feel very uncomfortable during the service "

OP says it's a choral evensong. The singing is the service.

Heathen4Hire · 16/04/2017 17:46

I visit religious sites as a tourist. I go to religious ceremonies if family members MUST have them. But I am an atheist. Secondary to all that, I find my former C of E services so tedious, music and all.

I went to a Christian funeral 18 months ago, for an uncle. But I like religious architecture, y'know, the "how did they build that in the 14th Century without a computer?" aspect.

originalbiglymavis · 16/04/2017 17:50

Beats a crematorium any day.

howrudeforme · 16/04/2017 18:09

I'm not at all religious and work for a faith organisation. No one has tried to convert me and I'm now way too old to change my ways.

I come from a variety of faiths and have no problems rocking up to any faith events to support family and friends. I went to see my son at a christingle and was proud. Although I'm an atheist I do find the whole atheist movement these days increasingly fundamentalist.

cardibach · 16/04/2017 18:15

Atheism is as much a belief system as religion. There is no proof either way. Agnosticism is the scientific route, I'd say. I'm agnostic. I attend church as part of my job and sing in a choir in religious services.
OP INBU to be upset her family won't attend. They ANBU to not want to, I suppose. The one who attended and bitched about it afterwards IBU.

AbernathysFringe · 16/04/2017 18:19

I don't understand why, if you really don't believe something is real, you'd be offended by people singing to it. I've been a fly on the wall at several church things as an agnostic, even, very amusingly, won a Bible quiz aged 15 at my friend's Sunday school based on vague knowledge picked up from my gran! I just imagine I'm Louis Theroux. In Florida I went to one with a relative that had some decidedly anti-gay rhetoric coming from the very very camp preacher - that's the only time I've been offended.
Do your parents also refuse to glance at religious art or listen to a large portion of classical music? Shame if so.

howrudeforme · 16/04/2017 18:22

Agree cardinach. Actually I guess I'm agnostic.

I'm against faith schools and the biggest group against them is the humanist association. However they do little to argue against faith schools other than to argue against religion. They don't see past their beliefs or recognise that many parents don't care about the religious aspect but care more that their dcs are excluded from such school which is unfair.

Chavelita · 16/04/2017 18:34

This is the classic Mn phenomenon, isn't it? People refusing to do something you think they should do, so you feel rebuked, because what you do is completely normal -- who is right? Let's ask Mn!

For what it's worth, while I'm an atheist who loves church music and spent a good chunk if yesterday listening to a St Matthew Passion, it sounds to me as if many of the posters on this thread have had very sheltered lives when it comes to religion, which they view as a polite 'let's be nice to one another and sing the odd chorus of 'To be a Pilgrim'.

Bully for you. But don't deride those of us who grew up in religion-saturated societies where the sheer damage done by religious beliefs makes that 'what does it matter when the tunes are good and the service is nice?' very hard to go along with. You can't compare one person's polite inherited 'Christmas, Easter, births and deaths' Anglicanism with another person's much more deep-seated and damaging experience of religion.

Dozer · 16/04/2017 18:52

Atheism is not a belief system, it's the evidence-based position.

GloriaGilbert · 16/04/2017 18:53

Atheism is not a belief system, it's the evidence-based position.

Indeed. You can't prove a negative.

cardibach · 16/04/2017 19:56

What evidence?
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in God and I think organised religion is responsible for much that is wrong with the world, but all I can say is I don't believe. There is no evidence.
You can't prove a negative, it's true, but stating the negative as absolute truth is expressing a belief as truth, surely?