To want to raise unconscious racism issue with the hospital?

[funnyface80]

Trying to keep a long story short. Baby is mixed race and no one has ever questioned whether baby was mine before as she looks like us although more white than asian. Nanny is white. We are in hospital with a very distressed baby who only wants to be in my arms and we are waiting for some help. A&E notes talk about accident where both mum and nanny present. Doctor 1 comes into the room and starts talking to nanny as if she was mum even though baby clearly with me. I stop her questioning and say I'm mum as nanny would not have been able to answer these questions. No apology just a quizzical look. Later as we wait for further treatment, baby even more distressed and DH now present, Doctor 2 comes in and asks who is who. We introduce ourselves as mum and dad and then Doctor 2 (Asian) proceeds to talk to nanny as if mum. I say again quite firmly that I am mum. No apology. This time I'm quite cross as baby again in my arms and yet doctor simply ignored me when she walked in. Should I raise this unconscious bias with the hospital so their staff are thought to be more respectful and less racist even if its without malice?

I've been accused of being my son's nanny. It really pissed me off, and I sent the organisation a note saying that people in close family relationships can appear different for all kinds of perfectly ordinary reasons - including genetic quirks, adoptions and so on (although in this case my son is my biological child). I would send a polite email asking them to remind staff not to make assumptions, and to listen when they are told who is who.

A doctor once thought my dad was my husband. I was mortified .
People make mistakes, besides their patient comes first, presumably your baby got the medical attention needed.

nell - although I was given the impression that as long as they knew they were mixed race it would be ok...the expectation was that HCPs would know what it was.
So they probably had had training on it ...(especially as we don't live in a very ethnically diverse area)

I thought the nanny was an employee...

redwine There's training courses :-) I am required to do one per year. They are actually really useful (i try to mix mine up so I may do race one year, and focus on gender / sexuality the next).

My point still stands though doesn't it? Unconscious bias means you can't improve it with training courses can you :-). The very definition of unconscious thoughts is you don't even know you're having them otherwise they would be conscious thoughts. How do you train people to stop having thoughts they don't know they're having?

i wouldn't worry about this to be honest. I really don't think they were being racist unconsciously or not.

I don't match my DC and as I had them fairly young  I was occasionally asked if I was their Mum or their nanny.    I dont even have the same accent as my kids.  It didn't bother me at all, in fact,  I occasionally used to pretend to be their nanny  😂

YANBU. That was definitely racist.

Just a mix up. Hope babe is well

Don't know what's wrong with some posters...

OP I would raise it with the hospital if you're unhappy with how you've been treated, doesn't really matter if it's overt racism or not. You go in with your child and you're already stressed, you don't need doctors being dicks as well.

YANBU. If there are two women in the room then of course they need to know who's who without making assumptions, and once you've told them, talk to the right person! Two women and a man could be there for various reasons. Until they asked, or looked at their notes, you could have been a straight couple with a nanny, a lesbian couple with a male nanny, a single mum who'd brought along two friends, or a couple who'd brought their sister/mum/friend.

I think the problem may be that although you confirmed you were the mother you failed to point out the other adult in the room as just a paid employee of yours. Perhaps the Dr was trying to include everyone in the room when speaking?

Well, I think YANBU OP, this is unconscious racial bias at work, just as it was with the interview-bombing babies' mum recently. People seem to think that racism has to involve violence or racial slurs but this kind of thing is insidious and damaging in a different way.

I think you're totally within your rights to raise it with the hospital. I wouldn't be demanding compensation or anything (doesn't sound like you would either!) but a reminder to the staff not to make assumptions - under any circumstances, to be honest - wouldn't go amiss.

Unconscious bias means you can't improve it with training courses can you :-)

No it doesn't mean that.

A training course can address unconscious bias, so in future, people will think deliberately about avoiding potential bias before it can occur subconsciously.

There's training courses :-) I am required to do one per year. They are actually really useful (i try to mix mine up so I may do race one year, and focus on gender / sexuality the next)

This is what nhs money is spent on? No wonder people can't get life saving drugs or necessary treatment, we have to spend huge amounts sending dr's on training days about unconcious bias. FFS.

It's A&E - the medical staff are trying to diagnose an apparently very ill baby. I think you can cut them a bit of slack on the assumptions they make about who is who, as long as they deal well with your baby!

There was probably some unconscious bias, but honestly, they have to work at such speed and under such pressure! And unless the mistake about you being the parent actually damaged the care of your baby, it's not discrimination, I'd have thought.

I wonder if you're projecting your understandable anxiety onto the medical staff? I hope your baby is faring better now.

Are you thinking the unconscious bias is that the baby looking not Asian (not dark skinned) is more likely to be baby of the white woman

Or that the Asian woman (in this case the op) must be the nanny

Unconscious bias can lead to making the wrong decision/failing to acquire critical information.

Plenty of women die each year from heart attacks because of unconscious bias.

YANBU clearly prejudiced assumptions at play esp. as you'd the doctor ignored you and spoke to the nanny after you said you were the mum. However as you've seen ppl on Mumsnet will fall over themselves to deny any racist or unconscious bias exists so you're unlikely to get much support here.

That question was to Epip

Hope you baby is ok op it's very worrying having to take a baby into a&e

I think you're getting a really hard time op. If someone assumed someone other than me was my dd's mum when I was holding her is be very upset. I do think its racial bias which is why they are assuming the white nanny is the light skinned childs mum but it is still hurtful even if unintentional.

Many of the people who are minimising your upset have probably had the luxury of being white and not being a minority skin colour and having the experiences that accompany that..

Seriously racism? Some people go out looking for this shit.

I think you're getting a really hard time op. If someone assumed someone other than me was my dd's mum when I was holding her is be very upset. I do think its racial bias which is why they are assuming the white nanny is the light skinned childs mum but it is still hurtful even if unintentional.

Or perhaps the unconcious bias is that of the two people there, mum and nanny, the one who is currently dealing with the child is the employee who was hired to look after them and would be the one ou expect to be dealing with the child while the parent focusses on dealing with doctors/HCPs etc?

I can't imagine having my baby in A&E and listening to anything the drs said other than about the child and how they were.

What a weird thing to say. If the doctors are clearly talking to someone else thinking they're the mother, no mother would stand there quietly listening without pointing out that the doctors needed to talk to her.

Generally speaking, I would tend to cut the A&E staff some slack. They're offering you a free (at the point of use) service, they're working under ridiculous pressure, they're shouted at and abused by patients on a daily basis, they could earn far more money doing their jobs in another country or in the private sector, and in the midst of all this they're trying to diagnose and do the right thing for a poorly baby (and hundreds of other patients). I literally cannot imagine a more stressful job.

However - and this is a big however - I am white and obviously have zero experience of unconscious racism. I'm very aware of unconscious sexism, however, and it pisses me right off when people try to minimise that, so I don't want to do the same thing to you. How about you wait until your baby is better, think through the incident when you are less unsettled, and decide if you still want to make a complaint then?

What did your husband and nanny say about it OP? After you had corrected the Dr and they still assumed nanny was mum?