AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

[windygallows]

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

Of course we should be encouraging our daughters to give themselves a good life and to be economically independent. Of course. But life doesn't always work out that way. You can be economically independent but working on 0 hours contract on a shit salary and just not able to create the 'good life' you wanted or were promised

Not being horrible, but someone destined for a life of 0 hours contracts is highly unlikely to be able to 'marry well' either. High earning men still overwhelmingly marry degree-educated women because those are the ones who make up their social circle. Therefore, going to a top-ranking university is likely to be key to finding someone who will go on to be prosperous (even if you don't meet them at uni). So in that sense, education and ambition IS important, whatever life course you want your DDs to take.
Having a rich husband gives the option of giving up work, but that is a pretty bad idea, as I explained above. I don't think you should tell your DDs that being a SAHM is the dream because it's so financially precarious is an age of high divorce rates and a retreat by the courts from ordering maintenance to low-earning wives.

Also, in 10 years time, your 'lucky' friends might be divorced and struggling to make ends meet.

God, no! Not for money!

Marry a decent, honest human being who treats you and everyone else with respect.

Yes, not every child will be a high achiever, but why should marrying someone wealthy be used like some sort of 'get out of jail free card'?

Purple perhaps we should just go back to the fact that marriage itself or coupling is usually hugely advantageous to women (and men), whether those two people are able to live on one income or two people joining incomes.

Having been partnered and now single I can certainly say that it's very very hard to get by as a single adult (and with children).

For this very reason should we not be encouraging our daughters to marry/co-habitate and isn't marrying well an extension of this?

You can't tell at a young age what someone's earning potential is so it would be difficult to pick who would be the one to marry.

Quite horrified by this. I don't think you are a feminist OP!

Yes a lot of people aren't ambitious and don't aspire to have a career. Many of those people are men. Is their view less worthy, because they are male? Are they not marriage material?

For this very reason should we not be encouraging our daughters to marry/co-habitate and isn't marrying well an extension of this?

No, I wouldn't encourage or discourage a daughter of mine to marry.

If they met someone they loved and they wanted to make that commitment I'd support them as long as they'd considered it fully and I thought the person they were marrying would make them happy. Money doesn't come into it.

I know lots of people who do tell their dds this, it's happening all the time, usually their dds have had a private education but haven't managed to get great results so are farmed off to London to work as estate agents/cooks/Nanny/PAs etc in the hope they find someone with money.

Mine went to the local comp, got great results and went to uni. Dd1 is ambitious and already earning a lot of money, her husband to be earns nearly six figures and is only 28 and yes I do have a sense of relief that she will have a nicer, easier life than someone who struggles with money. dd2 on the other hand is an arty creative type and I do worry about her and have day dreamed about her falling for an arty, creative type who also has a lot of money.

It's a hard one OP.

Agree with stoic. Marrying well should be not marrying an abusive dickhead, even if he does have a boatload of cash. Equally, not settling for a lazy cocklodger, but that's down to mutual respect being important in a healthy relationship.

So what about our sons? Do they just have to be ambitious off their own bat, or should we be giving them similar advice?

Xmas baby Yes I'm a feminist and I've done years of marching, years volunteering at women's centres and years in the pro-choice movement. Have you?

I've asked a hypothetical question. that's all.

We should encourage all of our children (girls and boys) to learn a skill that enables them to be financially independent.

No one should ever feel trapped in a failing relationship because of money. And no one should ever struggle financially due to death or divorce - everyone should be their own back up plan.

People should marry out of love. There are lots of other factors they need to consider (shared beliefs on deal breakers like children etc) but if they don't love each other, it's not marrying well.

I don't have words to adequately express how utterly revolting I find this view, OP, and how angry it makes me. Attitudes like this demean everyone involved, and have no place in an advanced society. If you bring your children up like this- girls to believe that they are owed a living by someone else, and boys to believe they owe one- you are failing them completely. I don't recognize or respect this as feminism.

I've asked a hypothetical question. that's all.

So you wouldn't tell your daughter that she should marry a rich man then? Are you playing devil's advocate with your posts?

I have often thought about this. I am now in my 60s and divorced. I did not "marry well" in the sense I think you mean and for most of our marriage I was the main breadwinner. This never mattered while I was married, but it did make it easier for me to be divorced because I could earn my own living and look after my DC - they were late teens when we divorced but, as seems to be the way nowadays, they were dependent on me for most of their 20s. Conversely, the fact that I did earn more than him I think made it easier for my Ex to leave and basically cut his kids out of his everyday life by moving abroad and remarrying.

My SiLs on the other hand did "marry well" and are extremely comfortably off and have been SAHMs for most of their married life - one has not worked at all (outside the home) for 20+ years and the other has done odd bits of part-time work - probably covering no more than 7 years of a 40-year marriage. They are still both married, but I honestly don't know if they are happy - their circumstances are that it would now be difficult for them to leave I think.

I am sure they feel sorry for me - I couldn't be bothered finding another partner in the end and certainly they are much better off financially than I am - but from the little I see of them now, I don't envy them their lifestyle and much prefer my own. To have still been married now to my Ex would have been a burden indeed.

It's odd though - in terms of wealth, it often does seem to depend on who you marry - not much different from Jane Austen's time after all.

Purple read my original post. I'm not saying 'we MUST tell our daughters this', I'm asking if this is something we should emphasize more.

My daughters are 3 and 10 - it's not even a subject that we've broached...

I don't think the words 'staunch feminist' mean what you think they do, OP.

I hope your daughters ignore your shitty advice and do what makes them happy.

@windygallows - so where does this leave my sons? Are they just to be cash machines, walking wallets? Why don't they deserve to be married to women who love them for who they are, not just for their earning potential?

windygallows Sun 09-Apr-17 23:01:21
"The Stoic - you need to stop coming down on me! I have posed this question hypothetically, just as something to think about.

Of course we should be encouraging our daughters to give themselves a good life and to be economically independent. Of course. But life doesn't always work out that way. You can be economically independent but working on 0 hours contract on a shit salary and just not able to create the 'good life' you wanted or were promised."

So why should some man be expected to marry a woman like this if her attitude is that a man like this isn't good enough for her to marry?

As a women who could be classed as "marrying" well, but actually earns more than my partner. No you should not be telling your daughters this.

People often assume I "married" well, because my OH has a good job. But they don't realise that whilst he has a good job I have a great job. But they can't see past the fact I birthed a child, so I couldn't I earn less (I don't). My OH will defend me to the sun on this too.

Also I am not actually married, hence the "". People just assume I am because we have a child. We don't agree with the ritual, and have other arrangements for financial things.

How about teaching your daughters to be their own people? Should they not be compete if they didn't get married and had kids? Why have you chosen this life for them?

Independence is what you should know be teaching your daughters

My Dsis married well. It meant that if she wanted to be a SAHM she could have been. It meant that she could go part time after taking her full maternity leave. It means that she has the time and the money to do things she enjoys away from her family. As well as have family holidays and mini breaks with her DH. If, in a few years she decides to retrain, they can afford it. If they split up, she will be a lot better off than most separated women.

Marrying well has given her more choices and opportunities. It hasn't compromised her feminism.

OP, your attitude seems to be "It's all right not to make any money and be stuck in a shitty job- if you are a woman. If you are a man, different rules apply". And I don't get this. Why do different rules apply?

I'll be encouraging DD to love herself first, and stand on her own two feet. Then find a partner who she loves, loves her and who she can have a partnership in life with.

Life can be bloody hard at times. Money makes some things easier, but I'll take DHs love and support over money any day.

Corythat I don't think I was saying different rules apply. I was merely observing that not actually marriage often elevates women financially - and men do well to. BUT women ARE more likely to have lower salaries and lower paid jobs.

Corythat sorry my last post made no sense and was filled with grammatical errors. I'm getting tired. Make of it what you will!