AIBU to think we should encourage our daughters to 'marry well'?

[windygallows]

I know 'marrying well' is something our mothers and grandmothers crowed about but it's not a phrase I've heard much these days and it feels quite an anti-feminist sentiment in a world where women can do well without men.

Yet I wonder if marrying well - marrying into money or marrying someone who is in a well-paid profession - is something we should be encouraging our daughters to do. Why? Because not every woman wants to have a career and if you want to be a SAHM then really that's easiest if your DH is well paid. Also women still experience a pay gap and are in lower-paid roles by comparison, so having a well paid DH really does make up that pay gap.

Plus - when I look around at my female friends and peers (I'm mid-40s) of the ones who have a comfortable lifestyle and are able to work part-time or be SAHM, for about 3/4 that lifestyle is attributed to having a well-paid or wealthy DH. The other 1/4 got there through their work/career, family money etc. This is purely a sample of my peers, by no means the norm.

I'm a staunch feminist so it's a bit hard to write this but I'm also a single parent and know what a slog it can be making everything work on my own salary. Marrying well doesn't mean a good marriage or relationship but it does make things easier. In the end shouldn't we be having an honest conversation with our daughters about this and encouraging them to think a bit more about 'marrying well'?

Brokenbiscuit, this is a serious question: if you didn't think you'd feel a sense of accomplishment raising a child and that you wouldn't enjoy a baby's company all day - why did you want kids?

Interesting that men who are clear they don't want to SAH never seem to get asked this question.

Bobo.

I've been reading a lot about Denmark and (will not be swayed from the dream of a society that works) it sounds like parenting is more valued there and people don't resent time spent w children as much.

I find in Canada that people are expected to be very career-oriented and I'm not and the pressure to "invest" in my work really gets to me. I just want to show up, work efficiently, and go home. I don't want to prioritize it over family, nor playact at caring about mad initiatives the upper echelons dream up in far-off cities (that are generally inefficient and make the work harder and are never done w staff input).

Elisaveta- I would certainly wonder why a man who didn't enjoy his kids' company would want kids & would be puzzled by a man who didn't feel "a sense of accomplishment" in the job of parenting.

I've been reading a lot about Denmark and (will not be swayed from the dream of a society that works) it sounds like parenting is more valued there and people don't resent time spent w children as much.

Who are you saying "resents time spent with children"?

I stayed with some friends a few weeks ago who have adult children in several countries, including a daughter and son-in-law in Denmark. Clearly Danes, as a society, have structures that support parenting and working for both parents. The downside, as far as my (very worldly wise) friends saw it, was a very conformist family model.

It's the gagging to get back to work and the women I work with who say they can't wait for the holidays to end so they can get shot of their kids - not the SAHM thing as where I live, for people having babies now, it's incredibly difficult not to have 2 incomes.

When my kids were little it was more affordable and I know SAHM's and SAHD's.

Purple - many of my coworkers without kids have been very vocal about people using family time (either family sick days to care for kids - which exists in many unionised jobs, or govt protected family leave for new babies - which in Canada can be split between partners).

lizzie not everyone loves the baby stage and some people don't do well at home with a newborn. It doesn't mean they love them any less. We're all different. For my sister who suffered horribly with pnd, going back to work was a huge blessing that she really looked forward to.

I do think that DC require a lot of time, energy and patience and that it is not easy to muster those things up if you have a busy job. Which is tragic.

Pnd is a totally different thing though, women w that should never be criticized for healthy things that help them cope.

So women who don't enjoy spending all day with their baby with no structure and no intellectual stimulation should be criticised?

People are different.

Bobo, my youngest has got one year of school left so is reasonably independent and a total delight to be around. But I arrive home utterly depleted and he'll suggest going for a walk together and while I want to spend time with him (and say yes) my heart sinks a bit as I'm so exhausted.

It sucks and I know he'd be happier if I wasn't so knackered.

Different ways of seeing a day with a baby! It never would have occurred to me to see it like that. My days with them had loads of structure; breakfast at the same time, housework, walking w baby to the shops at the same time, lunch, nap for baby while I read or chat to friends, make dinner. It wasn't chaotic or without structure to me. And I had friends of both genders who stayed home w their kids to talk to when I wanted adult conversation, and honestly, I felt quite stimulated introducing my kids to the world. I was always chatting to them, showing them things. I am about 1000 times more bored at work. And that may be under-estimating! Not everyone has a high-powered, fascinating job :)

Has it been mentioned yet that the cunting daily fail has picked up on this? It's good to see the journalists there don't need to worry about doing any actual work when they can just reprint what's written on here.

Obviously when you have a baby you have to create your own structure. Some people aren't good at managing themselves whereas others hate being managed and are much happier taking control of their own life.

Intellectual stimulation is similarly something that you can search out for yourself.

I have recently realised I am not a fan of being managed! It really gets up my nose to be told I have to take a tea break at a specific time "because those are the rules" when our dept has always taken them when it is convenient for the work. Can't bear to be told to put tallies instead of checks on a grid, told not to doodle in a meeting, told to sit up straight when the supervisor is talking to me. Does my head in! Neither of my kids ever tried to organize me!

Some of us work for ourselves and keep all the money and make our own structures. Working full time like that can be very rewarding. I love my work and I love my children and grandchild.

lizzie you sound thoroughly unhappy in your work and family life. Which is horrible .

But don't assume that everyone is the same. Lots of us are happy with both aspects.

I'm not unhappy in my family life! Don't know where you get that from?! I was divorced a very long time ago, so that doesn't trouble me. My teenager is a dream to be around. I'm exhausted at the end of the day, but that's entirely work, not ds!! I am extremely lucky to have a kid like him and am very glad I chose to have kids. Sorry you somehow got that impression, but I can't imagine how!

I do have work though.

Hate work, not have.

lizzie sorry I obviously misunderstood what with the arse of an ex husband and the exhaustion.

But keep the flowers for the crap work life .

And for sure everyone is different. I've just always been curious about people who enjoy work but not kids but have more than one. The first one a person could assume they'd enjoy, but after that I was puzzled. I think it's been answered and in the spirit of enquiry (& not goadiness!) I'm glad for that.

I only knew one stay at home parent who didn't enjoy time w her kids. She had 4, which really puzzled me (was always shouting at them and calling them tiresome & the kids picked up on it and bullied other kids).

Thanks getahaircut :) Shall keep flowers.

I don't, thankfully, have to interact with the exh so much anymore now the kids are not little. And not interacting w him means he's less of a tinderbox when I do as the habit of being abusive is not constantly being reinforced (or he's mellowing w age!).

Making my kids' lives a bit easier, a bit more interesting, more content, is something I get a lot of satisfaction out of.
Also ds is now tall enough to put away the high-up dishes and whack rosebushes out of my reach

Elisaveta- I would certainly wonder why a man who didn't enjoy his kids' company would want kids & would be puzzled by a man who didn't feel "a sense of accomplishment" in the job of parenting.

Not quite what you said though lizzie.

You asked brokenbiscuit, after she'd said she wanted to work and would hate to SAH, why she'd have a child if she didn't think she'd see raising one as an accomplishment and that she wouldn't enjoy a baby's company all day. Not enjoy their company at all, but enjoy it all day. Ie, wouldn't enjoy being a SAHP of a baby.

And let's face it, that is not a question that gets asked of blokes much.