MIL hit DD (4) after being told repeatedly not to. NC against DH wishes?

[netflixandnappies]

I've been wanting to post but have been shy because of judgement but I really need help as I am NC with my own family and DH isn't with me

I don't mind MIL but culturally we are not the same. She thinks it's okay to hit kids and for the most stupid bullshit, like "answering back" or spilling something if being told not to touch it. It's like she gets a thrill out of being a disciplinarian for the sake of it, as opposed to actually caring about raising a responsible healthy kid. She teases me all the time with comments like: "That shit couldn't have run in my house!" like it's a status symbol for your kids to be afraid of you. I grew up getting hit for reason, my mother was lazy and sadistic. I despise her now and we are NC after trying to be close for years.

I've never left DD alone with MIL once she hit 2 because I know what she's like. She can be lovely, but also ghetto (I come from a working class background I mean nothing by it) impatient and petty. I noticed the more DD developed a personality, MIL chastised her more. Last year I heard MIL say "stop that or I'll spank you". I was in the loo, DH was on a conference call. I came back and politely told her we don't ever do that, and even if we did, we's never extend it beyond our own discretion. She rolled her eyes and I really put my foot down and said nearly verbatim (obviously I can't recount word for word) "If you ever touch my child I won't have you around again because there'd be no trust and she isn't even naughty, you're just impatient and I'm sorry, but a little ghetto". I said the ghetto bit in a sort of jokey / serious tone that I can honestly say she didn't take offence to. We are from the same background and she knows what I mean.

On Friday MIL was with us in the living room being perfectly sweet, DD wanted an ice cream from the van outside. We all said no (no treats due to an earlier transgression). MIL was telling her no and to sit down and stop looking out the window like a puppy. DD turned around and said "I don't care" in tears and MIL got up, pulled up her skirt and gave her a huge smack on her bum. I thought she was getting up to take her from the window bay and appease her but she hit her! It happened in literally 3 seconds! I was up and grabbing my child and doing the obvious "how dare you's" but didn't want more of a scene as DD was clearly distressed (she's never been hit, or threatened to be hit). DH was trying to calm everything down after hearing the commotion and I went upstairs to calm DD down. MIL is downstairs saying I'm too soft when our DD is an ordinary child behaviour wise. What 4 year old doesn't have the odd cheeky come back? What 4 year old doesn't have the odd tantrum? I come downstairs and and grab her bag and jacket off the bannister and ask her nicely to leave so we can sort this out. DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright. We agreed together no spanking but somehow because it's his mother he feels like I'm being a bitch! Like she should get a pass! He conceded she will probably do it again if she see's fit so I said NC with DC!! No point having family around your kids and having to walk on eggshells because they have a fucked up flaw. He's saying NC with DC is ridiculous, she's not a pedophile etc......That's his mother etc....

Hmmm, culture does matter.

OP, I do find your tone towards your husband curious. Things like 'he knows better than to go above me'. Also saying to your MIL 'get in line'. Calling her ghetto, etc.

Just sounds like none of you have respect for each other.

Have you spelled out in words of 1 syllable of less that he has let you down? Because in all honesty I think he needs to hear it in all it's brutal form.

Misstic I think "get in line" is trying to use mil's own language to get the point across

doesn't sound like she'd understand anything else

Netflix, you sound like an amazing woman to me. I'm so sorry you're in this position. Your mil sounds truly ghastly!!! She was apparently itching to hit your DD and still is! I agree with PPs that it seemed like a power play. She thinks she's the boss here and is going to have to learn otherwise, one way or another.

The good news is that she seems to have very few tools at her disposal. You, on the other hand, are hugely well equipped, extremely well educated and resourceful. And, remember, YOU are the mother in this situation, not her - this might be the one thing she and your DH will (eventually) understand.

She's thrown a few choice words in your direction - don't let this fool you or weaken your resolve. (She knows her options are limited but is doing what she can to hang on to her sense of power.)

Carry on regardless! You MUST continue to protect your daughter. Decide how you're going to do this and stand strong!

There's a lot of stuff going on here.

OP, it is great that you have made a success of your life. Be careful to not let it loom too large in how you regard others and how you treat them. I get that it is a big deal for you but reading your posts, I wonder if you may be adversely affecting your behaviour towards those you consider less successful.

I think your MIL was wrong. I don't think either of you are handling this well. Your husband is caught in the middle and to make matters worse you have little respect for him (you probably never have had much respect for him by the sounds of things).

Your MIL does not respect you and you do not respect her. It all sounds a mess.

Whatever is going on, your main aim should be to protect your daughter and her future. That does not necessarily mean NC with MIL but it does mean some control on access and perhaps an agreement by all to be at least civil in your DD's presence.

OP, I forgot to mention that you probably do understand that culture plays a strong part in the relationship dynamics (I'm not referring to the smacking). So you'll need to be tactical. Going head on swinging punches is unlikely to get you the best results.

Not all cultures bend to or accept the British way of dealing with things. No culture is superior to another.

Netflicks from another one who pulled herself out of the gutter. I'm also NC with my family and have been for many years. You sound like an amazing person, a fantastic mum and someone who has done extremely well for yourself

Your MIL's behaviour is beyond disgusting and vile, I also think you've been extremely restrained and I think you've handled it amazingly well. I don't think you should be tactful, fuck that and hold the line. Do the same as with toddlers - keep firm and consistent, no false ultimatums, always follow through, stick to what you say. Why the fuck should you be tactful after her behaviour let alone that message?!

I think its really important for your daughter to see you taking a firm stand against this and showing her that regardless of culture, whether someone is part of your family or whatever violence is never OK and that's its always right to speak out against it and take action, and not just sweep it under the carpet or have to endure it. I think you're doing so well, I'm sorry if that sounds patronising.

I have to say in your position I would have called the police and reported her and pressed charges, if that's how it works, I haven't lived in the UK for a very long time. Violence against children is still a PTSD trigger for me and I would struggle --be completely unable to stay rational if anyone was violent towards my DS.

Grrr autocorrect, Netflix, not flicks - sorry!

I wouldn't just go no contact, I'd report her to the police as well. That'll put her in her place good and proper. You went through this and worse yourself. Stand up for your DD! You're an educated woman, you know it's wrong. To hell with the 'community'. Think of it this way - a lawyer and a GP stood by as a relative hit their child... Doesn't sound good, does it? Her text is the proof you need when you go to the police - it clearly proves she (a) did it and (b) doesn't feel one bit like it was wrong!

stfu misstic. OP is caribbean, she understands the culture. it doesn't even matter. MIL is not "less successful", she is a psycho.

OP: therapy with DH right now. you need to strengthen your marriage as much as possible because this woman is going to do everything she can to undermine it. EVERYTHING.

the funny thing is that your DD is going to be fine. She'll have a great mum and dad and she'll be happy. she won't have the upbringing you had, either of you.

Your priority should be getting DH to agree to the NC. Therapy, counseling, anal, use the crying kid, manipulate away. Do whatever it takes.

It is way too easy for posters to suggest reporting the grandmother to the police. Other than the cultural element to her behaviour (which I stress does NOT excuse it but I can totally relate to ) this is the DH's mother who he loves and not some random stranger . No doubt, there will also be established feelings of affection between the grandmother and the child. . Of course the DH, and I'm sure even the OP, would have conflicted feelings around this. A police report would result in serious repercussions for the family dynamics that the family (and not randoms on the internet) would have to live with.

Neither am I suggesting that the fact that the perpetrator of the assault is a relative should in itself preclude police involvement; It's about proportionality. If the grandmother's assault against the child had been more severe (e.g. repeated hitting or on another part of the body) then of course that point would carry far less weight. But it wasn't. I'm sure the family can move on from this without such drastic action.

To me, it's really about balancing these points together. What is important for this child is that she sees that her parents will not be tolerating any of this conduct from the grandmother in future. Seriously words also need to be had with the grandmother; she must accept that any continuing behaviour may result in no contact or even police intervention. I just don't think that it's reached the stage yet where either is warranted.

Oh wow... just seen the text she sent you, OP. How terrible! That is truly ignorant and goading and I would completely understand no contact for a while unless her attitude changes. But I stand by the fact that police action would be a disproportionate step.

She didn't see you hiding and crying. She isn't seeing you as anything less than strong. Expect more of the same and continue to know you are in the right. For now never doubt what a formidable woman you have become. And if your parents could really see what a beautiful and amazing person you have become, they would be proud of you too. Unfortunately they can't see this and they can't see you for who you truly are. And it hurts deeply and wrenchingly. I know personally how much this hurts.

OP I'd almost be tempted to contact the police after that last text message to show her you mean business. I think your reply was awesome BTW. Have you had it out with your DH? Is he normally supportive?

I think you sound like a lovely mum and your DD is very lucky to have you x

Netflix you didn't fail you daughter. Your MIL did and you are sticking up for her. That is what a good mother would do.

You asked what to do about your DH. He says that being hit didn't do him any harm. Maybe you could ask him if it didn't, why he's not too bothered (or bothered at all) that someone just lifted his daughter's skirt and hit her. And if it's not a coincidence that the only person he would allow to do that happens to be someone he's afraid of displeasing..and why that is. Purely coincidence? I think not.

Your daughter isn't missing out on contact with her family if they're toxic. You are bringing her up in a safe environment. That's worth more than any person who is related by blood. Which I think you know anyway.

I know people - successful like you - who have felt unloved and alone in the way you do. They got rid of that feeling through going to a good (emphasis on "good") therapist. Not saying you should, but just putting it out there.

Oh and agree with pp that your MIL will seek to undermine you with DH. So you need to look at ways to tackle that.

It's a matted of respect. Your rules and your wishes are not being respected by your mil, so I would just make sure your dc are never left alone with her.

You've done the right thing. It won't happen overnight but actually having someone stand up to her may make MIL truly reflect.

Luckily for you dd is also getting older and can calm her GM on this shit herself too. You just teach dd NOONE has the right to hit her and she tells a trusted adult if it ever happens.

Good on you op, you have also set the standard now for any of her future behaviour. That clearly needed to be done. Big massive bravo to you x

What's going on here? You can make life changing decisions for other people but you're pussy-footing around MIL? You cannot trust this woman around her.

Your child, your rules, no compromise. Speak to MIL in language she can understand for the avoidance of doubt, and make it clear she has no opportunity for rebuttal. She lives in a different world and you will have to step into it temporarily.

Given she has zero remorse, then YANBU for going NC. I agree with others that you're going to have to spell this out more clearly.

You hit my child, you are no longer welcome around her.

Well done on calling DH out on it too. I know that must have been hard but you're doing the right thing protecting your DD.

I'm from the UK and have social service workers in my family. You can spank but not leave a mark

Spice, only parents or people authorised by them can smack a child, so the rules about authorised punishment don't apply in this case. It's also far too simplistic to say it's OK if you don't leave a mark, and anyone following that rule would be in dangerous territory.

OP, it's not weak to cry or be upset, especially when you've got very good reason to be upset. It's never weak to show emotion or to cry, that's not what weakness is. Weakness would be if you actually caved to this horrible woman who talks about her grown son as if he's a toddler and made it acceptable for her to hit your child. Being upset because you won't cave and have to accept some shit from that isn't weak. It's human and actually a sign of strength that you won't cave despite the pressure.

I'm from the UK and have social service workers in my family. You can spank but not leave a mark

If your relatives in SS are working in diverse areas they will be able to tell you that the amount of children from certain backgrounds being taken into care is rising.
Largely due to their parent's inability to break away from their 'culture' of using physical chastisement.

Misstic It's the internet so you can't tell my tone. I'm black, we don't say chavy we say ghetto. It doesn't mean anything bad. Just loud and vulgar and proudly ignorant etc. When I say he knows better you surely must can tell I mean because I've put my foot down and he can see I'm visibly upset. I just meant my husband doesn't want to upset me or his child further. He knows better. Read the tread you may understand more x

How is DH this morning?