MIL hit DD (4) after being told repeatedly not to. NC against DH wishes?

[netflixandnappies]

I've been wanting to post but have been shy because of judgement but I really need help as I am NC with my own family and DH isn't with me

I don't mind MIL but culturally we are not the same. She thinks it's okay to hit kids and for the most stupid bullshit, like "answering back" or spilling something if being told not to touch it. It's like she gets a thrill out of being a disciplinarian for the sake of it, as opposed to actually caring about raising a responsible healthy kid. She teases me all the time with comments like: "That shit couldn't have run in my house!" like it's a status symbol for your kids to be afraid of you. I grew up getting hit for reason, my mother was lazy and sadistic. I despise her now and we are NC after trying to be close for years.

I've never left DD alone with MIL once she hit 2 because I know what she's like. She can be lovely, but also ghetto (I come from a working class background I mean nothing by it) impatient and petty. I noticed the more DD developed a personality, MIL chastised her more. Last year I heard MIL say "stop that or I'll spank you". I was in the loo, DH was on a conference call. I came back and politely told her we don't ever do that, and even if we did, we's never extend it beyond our own discretion. She rolled her eyes and I really put my foot down and said nearly verbatim (obviously I can't recount word for word) "If you ever touch my child I won't have you around again because there'd be no trust and she isn't even naughty, you're just impatient and I'm sorry, but a little ghetto". I said the ghetto bit in a sort of jokey / serious tone that I can honestly say she didn't take offence to. We are from the same background and she knows what I mean.

On Friday MIL was with us in the living room being perfectly sweet, DD wanted an ice cream from the van outside. We all said no (no treats due to an earlier transgression). MIL was telling her no and to sit down and stop looking out the window like a puppy. DD turned around and said "I don't care" in tears and MIL got up, pulled up her skirt and gave her a huge smack on her bum. I thought she was getting up to take her from the window bay and appease her but she hit her! It happened in literally 3 seconds! I was up and grabbing my child and doing the obvious "how dare you's" but didn't want more of a scene as DD was clearly distressed (she's never been hit, or threatened to be hit). DH was trying to calm everything down after hearing the commotion and I went upstairs to calm DD down. MIL is downstairs saying I'm too soft when our DD is an ordinary child behaviour wise. What 4 year old doesn't have the odd cheeky come back? What 4 year old doesn't have the odd tantrum? I come downstairs and and grab her bag and jacket off the bannister and ask her nicely to leave so we can sort this out. DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright. We agreed together no spanking but somehow because it's his mother he feels like I'm being a bitch! Like she should get a pass! He conceded she will probably do it again if she see's fit so I said NC with DC!! No point having family around your kids and having to walk on eggshells because they have a fucked up flaw. He's saying NC with DC is ridiculous, she's not a pedophile etc......That's his mother etc....

Netflix having read the full thread, I have to say how proud I am of you and the way you've handled this. You may feel like you have no one but you are incredibly strong and a fighting force for your DD. Your MIL was out of line, you've called her out on it and she still believes she's right. She'll never change. You are doing the right thing.

Netflix

I'm really really concerned that you are all not going into counselling. You seem way too relieved for what you've achieved. You've won the battle but the war is just starting. Please please please understand that anything you have to force your DH into is a temporary reprieve.

Only when he is taking the LEAD in going NC are you safe. And your marriage may seem solid but if it breaks at any point, you will have a nightmarish scenario on your hands.

GET HIM INTO THERAPY. Do it NOW. Give it the years to work that it needs.

btw i am not knocking you, i think what you've done is amazing but this isn't over. it's over when your DH tells YOU that NC is needed.

this is the calm so use it. because at some point she'll get sick or have an accident, she WILL use it to try and get access to DD. I'd guarantee at some point she'll start trying to get DH to take DD behind your back. And since he's sure that she's no danger whilst he's here, and he knows it will just worry you, he might do it. Not now but some point in the future when it all seems like an overreaction.

What are you going to threaten to do, leave him? You won't because then she'll have complete access.

you can't tell him. it has to come from a licensed professional.

I've not got anything useful to add, but Netflix you are bloody amazing and your little girl is so lucky to have a wonderful mother like you. You are clearly so so strong and you will get through this and your DH will see the light with regard his mum.

Oh, and as to those 10 min GP appointments - I know it's nowhere near long enough, and I don't know how you manage the stress of it all - but please be reassured by just how much us patients appreciate those minutes. There may only be 10 of them, but I promise you that in those 10 minutes you change lives for the better. Thank you!

I'm sorry but I can't share the optimism of other posters. This does not sound good. Your approach is backing your DH against a wall. You are dragging him along. He is not willing or committed to your approach. For how long will you be able to control your DH through threats and looks that could kill pigeons?

I agree with the poster who advised counselling. The whole thing is starting to sound like it's on its way to dysfunction and lots of drama. Feeling you are the baddest might be carthatic but the war is far from over and may be waged for donkey years if not handled well.

I wish you the very best.

I read the rest of your posts OP, and I do think this is turning into a 'hot and ugly mess' as the Americans would say.

I'm not sure who has a bigger issue with your success, you or your MIL. I wonder whether your MIL hitting your DD was simply a trigger that reveal much deeper underlying issues in all the relationships involved. There's a lot going on.

Definitely counselling.

Your approach is backing your DH against a wall. You are dragging him along

No she isn't!

He agreed no smacking
He agreed his mother was wrong
He agreed a cooling off period of no contact
OP hasn't said he can't see his mother

He's just not man enough to follow through with any consequences and wants to brush it under the carpet as he has always done

You can't do that as a parent - DD can't walk away or assert herself so you have to as a parent DH is just not doing that!

He is not man enough? Is all of this necessary? Is this kind of thinking really helpful or even likely to achieve anything near success? Presumably the OP wants a solution that leaves both her and her husband in a good place with each other. This approach and denigrating him sure ain't going to achieve that.

Astro, he's just not man enough?

That's a bit harsh!

Lazyhazysummer, since the OP said she's unlikely to update again, we may never know

Eh, I don't know, if my husband was dragging his heels on the matter of his mother assaulting our child, I'd probably be searching for his cojones behind the sofa.

I would go nc, purely because you were there this time and she did it in front of you anyway!

Tell her it's unacceptable and that you won't be allowing her to see your child until she's apologised and can prove to you that she's got her temper under control.

If she had done that to my son, I would have hit her back and then threw her out my house.

OP, i have so much admiration for how you're handling this. It sounds as if you and your DH are trying to move forward together on this. What a lovely, intimate morning scene you described with your little family. Please ignore those posters who for some reason seem vested in you remaining in a perpetual state of anger. It doesn't help anyone to do so and not least, your DD. As for your DH not being 'man enough?' It speaks more to that poster's ignorance of the dynamics here. As if life is that simple.

You deserve a medal for putting up with all her shit, OP.

My head is spinning that you are financially supporting someone who has behaved so atrociously, not just now, but in the past. I'd be stopping that quick smart.

If someone hit my child I would hit them so you handled it pretty well

If you and your husband stopped financially supporting her would she change her attitude towards you?

I personally think the cultural background is an excuse to be honest. Where the DCs Dad came from. It was 'normal' to get the cane when misbehaving. He's never laid a finger on either DCs. My Dad, born in the 50s, it was 'normal' for him and his siblings to get the belt off his Dad when he came back from work if they'd been playing his Mum up.

DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright.

If your DH thinks pulling DDs clothes down and hitting her bare bum is 'just a spank' I'd be having stern words with him, then getting him to have very stern words with his Mum.

Just because it used to be normal back then doesn't make it right in the present. There's a reason we stopped doing things like this.
If she wouldn't hit an adult for answering her back she shouldn't hit a 4yo, I've got a very hormonal 11yo at the minute going through an answering back stage. There's other ways to go about disciplining a child.

Sorry OP just noticed your other post about DH agreeing it's wrong.

OP

I had an abusive childhood too and somehow managed to become a lawyer later in life despite my parents making every attempt to fuck up my life and education. One thing I've realised is that a shit upbringing makes you want to cling to normality and have a good and steady, uncontroversial adult life. This thread has made me really sad for you, as well as DD, because I get it completely and it's awful.

My PIL dislike me. I have no idea why or what I've done. I've come to the conclusion that nobody is ever good enough for their son - they bitch about his exes too. DH wouldn't tell me even if he knew because he wouldn't want to upset me.

I was really sad to start with but now I've just accepted it. Unfortunately DH loves his parents and doesn't want to rock the boat so it's put a strain on our relationship in the past. He sees them, I don't. It's fine. However they love my SIL which makes it all the more odd

With my own DM I warned her in no uncertain terms that if I ever saw one whiff of how I was treated as a child, she would never see my DC again. I meant it. She was actually a great grandma before she died and we had a good relationship for the last few years. It's possible your MIL may be the same. However those text messages really paint her in an appalling light.

Anyway - it's horrible because your DH is in the middle. But I think you're doing the right thing - letting him carry on and keeping your DD away. You can review it in later months if you want to try agin. But she needs to apologise.

"Just because it used to be normal back then doesn't make it right in the present. "

Absolutely, & even when it was "normal" it didn't happen to everyone!