MIL hit DD (4) after being told repeatedly not to. NC against DH wishes?

[netflixandnappies]

I've been wanting to post but have been shy because of judgement but I really need help as I am NC with my own family and DH isn't with me

I don't mind MIL but culturally we are not the same. She thinks it's okay to hit kids and for the most stupid bullshit, like "answering back" or spilling something if being told not to touch it. It's like she gets a thrill out of being a disciplinarian for the sake of it, as opposed to actually caring about raising a responsible healthy kid. She teases me all the time with comments like: "That shit couldn't have run in my house!" like it's a status symbol for your kids to be afraid of you. I grew up getting hit for reason, my mother was lazy and sadistic. I despise her now and we are NC after trying to be close for years.

I've never left DD alone with MIL once she hit 2 because I know what she's like. She can be lovely, but also ghetto (I come from a working class background I mean nothing by it) impatient and petty. I noticed the more DD developed a personality, MIL chastised her more. Last year I heard MIL say "stop that or I'll spank you". I was in the loo, DH was on a conference call. I came back and politely told her we don't ever do that, and even if we did, we's never extend it beyond our own discretion. She rolled her eyes and I really put my foot down and said nearly verbatim (obviously I can't recount word for word) "If you ever touch my child I won't have you around again because there'd be no trust and she isn't even naughty, you're just impatient and I'm sorry, but a little ghetto". I said the ghetto bit in a sort of jokey / serious tone that I can honestly say she didn't take offence to. We are from the same background and she knows what I mean.

On Friday MIL was with us in the living room being perfectly sweet, DD wanted an ice cream from the van outside. We all said no (no treats due to an earlier transgression). MIL was telling her no and to sit down and stop looking out the window like a puppy. DD turned around and said "I don't care" in tears and MIL got up, pulled up her skirt and gave her a huge smack on her bum. I thought she was getting up to take her from the window bay and appease her but she hit her! It happened in literally 3 seconds! I was up and grabbing my child and doing the obvious "how dare you's" but didn't want more of a scene as DD was clearly distressed (she's never been hit, or threatened to be hit). DH was trying to calm everything down after hearing the commotion and I went upstairs to calm DD down. MIL is downstairs saying I'm too soft when our DD is an ordinary child behaviour wise. What 4 year old doesn't have the odd cheeky come back? What 4 year old doesn't have the odd tantrum? I come downstairs and and grab her bag and jacket off the bannister and ask her nicely to leave so we can sort this out. DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright. We agreed together no spanking but somehow because it's his mother he feels like I'm being a bitch! Like she should get a pass! He conceded she will probably do it again if she see's fit so I said NC with DC!! No point having family around your kids and having to walk on eggshells because they have a fucked up flaw. He's saying NC with DC is ridiculous, she's not a pedophile etc......That's his mother etc....

"I'm not even saying he can't see his mum he can have fucking lunch with her everyday if he wants! You know what the issue is? He feels uncomfortable with her without DD and he knows it. He knows that if DD isn't allowed to see her, he's never see his mum again by his own choice."

Amazing insight.

No advice OP, except that you sound EXCELLENT and I wish you were my friend! Hope you are feeling ok today.

Thanks guys for this advice. MIL left her bloody glasses case in the living room and DH goes "we'll drop it off to her later". I gave him a look that could kill pigeons in mid air and he went "sorry you know what I mean". DD was engrossed in the TV so I took DH into kitchen and said "I know you have issues with your mum and feel DD has helped you bond again and NC if she doesn't refrain from spanking will sever that bond, but you know it's the right thing to do. I don't moan when she swears, I don't moan when she smokes in the garden in front of DD (yards away but I still don't like it). I don't moan when she's being loud in public, I don't moan when she belittles my parenting as a 'joke' and I don't moan that even though you've made sure she's financially set for life she cant even get DD a fucking birthday card! So as your wife, and someone who has taken a lot of shit, I'm asking you to take this seriously ". He promised and I believe him but he looked so sad guys, like really broken. Because he knows she won't say sorry and he knows she will feel no way to never see us again as long as that money hits her account every month. I know it's about DD but because of the context of their relationship I feel bad for DH too. They sort of bonded over him having a child and it isn't all bad - We've had our nice moments together the 4 of us. Very sad. Thanks for all your help I doubt there will be an update as I truly believe DH is in board now. I think outlining all her flaws that I literally nearly chew off my tongue to ignore really woke him up and made him appreciate his little family that love him so much.

It is so telling that he doesn't want to see his own DM without a third party there as a safety valve.

I think you're doing the right thing, OP. If you make it crystal clear to her that the NC goes on for as long as she doesn't agree about the no-hitting rule, then it remains a decision that she is making. That way you shut off any complaint from her about "You're keeping my DGD away from me!" and make it clear that, "No, you're keeping your DGD away from yourself."

Your rules are not remotely unreasonable. Even if you were a household that endorsed slapping, you would still absolutely and unconditionally have the right to say that no one else on earth is allowed to do the same, and that too would not be unreasonable. I'm glad that's not the case but she needs to understand that if you set rules, it doesn't matter what she thinks of them, she adheres to them. And if she doesn't, then by her own choice, she is taking herself out of her DGD's life.

Best of luck with it all Netflix.

There is no way I'd have contact again.

You've got this Netflix. Well done you!

God OP, you get classier and classier. I'd have been throwing a tantrum and drumming my heels by now.

As an aside, a mark so red it is as visible as it would be on white skin? She's an absolute monster.

Why does she need financial support from her grown up son who has a family, the way she treats you op, this would be a massive wind up to me. What kind of money are we talking here?

@lazyhazysummer

IMO it's hardly appropriate to ask the OP what kind of money is involved!

Doesn't sound DN like she appreciates it either! Stop funding her fag habit

I don't know, if OP's family is bankrolling MIL, I do think that's relevant as it's a pretty significant dynamic. Not that an unbankrolled MIL would have a right to assault OP's child, but it does alter certain things within the family.

Also, I'm almost laughing at the idea of a vulgar, foul mouthed person who smokes around youngsters lecturing anyone about raising children well. Almost, because it's not actually funny, but the hypocrisy and lack of self awareness is jaw dropping.

Netflix, My hubby woke up from his denial and is in counselling, their mothers sound extremely similar.

Having a total narcissist for a mother will be tough on him, I suspect your DH feels small, shamed and guilty about her, and somehow like his life is wrong. As you mentioned before, he stayed for the highs despite all the lows and has tried his best to please her, even though she only cares about she wants, she clearly thinks that rules are there to be broken and made by her. Its a harsh reality for him to confront and it brings things he wanted to keep hidden away to the surface, things he will have thought were totally normal until he looks back and realises how manipulative and damaging they were.
You sound like you have a great marriage and its very telling that he wouldn't see her without DD there as a buffer.

I think the first steps are that he needs to come to terms with this, accept his part in enabling it to continue, create distance, and stop supporting her financially. Don't reward utter disregard for him and his family. Use that money for your own family!

She clearly couldn't care less if she caused such trouble that you left, that her sons heart would be broken, that her grandchilds parents split up because of her handiwork, so long as everyone knows who he belongs to. MY SON, I am his MAMMA. Sounds so familiar to me and it sends shivers through me.

Really really wish you both lots of luck, you are classy, and your family is worth it xxxxxx

"but it does alter certain things within the family."

Yes, makes it worse than ever imo.

It just shows the utter contempt that she has for him.

If he as an adult can't/won't see his mum without his daughter there, you have to wonder why does he want a relationship with his mum, let alone forcing his kid to have one!

OP, this isn't working as it is.

Two words Family counselling. Go with your husband, make the appointment and insist he attends. There doesn't seem much point inviting MIL because she'll say all counselling is bonkers but insist he goes.

He must, he's manipulating you right now.

Don't see why not steinbeck isn't this the place where things get shared that you wouldn't in real life. It must be relevant or OP wouldn't have mentioned it.

I'd be furious. No unsupervised contact with DC ever again at an absolute minimum, NC most likely for me.

My PILs are like this and DH and I have warned them that these will be the consequences should they choose not to respect our rules.

She's a bully pure and simple. Well done op.

"Yes, makes it worse than ever imo.

I'm inclined to agree.

Also, tell your DH to post the glasses case. Not to go there in person. X

I think you should "calm down" - just calmly repeat: no one is allowed to hit DD, and it is apparently so important to her to be able to hit that she won't promise not to. So we can't see her with DD. And repeat. Since you're so absolutely in the right (and your DH can see it), the broken record method and a continued strong sense of the truth behind you will eventually mean you can stay calm without losing your anger or your decision. You can tell DH that of course you'll see MIL again one day - either she'll come around or DD will grow into an adult first. Even 14 years isn't forever.
As for not having family - have you heard the phrase "logical family" as in when you don't have the love and support of your biological family you can create or find your "logical family"? I've heard Dan Savage use the phrase re gay teens or adults driven out by homophobic families. Some family-like ties and connection can be created in communities of similar-minded people, and I hope you can find some of that.

@lazyhazysummer

Granted, but you asked: 'What kind of money are we talking here?' That reads (to me at least) that you are asking how much money is involved?

I don't think the OP needs to share the specific amount.

and yes, DH can drop off the glasses case by himself; if wants to see his mother presumably he can. The issue is your DD.

Well that's up to the Op to decide steinbeck, of course she doesn't have to share that, but people share much more confidential info on mumsnet. The reason i asked was if it was a large sum of money it would give us a better understanding of the relationship between mother and son and if it was impacting on the ops life. Posters don't have to share lots of things, relevant or not, but they do.

I'm amazed that you've remained so calm in your dealings with mil after this ... I would have thrown her stuff out on the street and told her to leave and never come back. I wouldn't even give her an opportunity to apologise - she's barbaric and wants to physically abuse your child so you need to protect your child. No fucking way would I ever allow DD within 10 feet of her again. If your DH wants to see his mother then he can go see her on his own but neither you nor your DD will be seeing that vicious piece of shit again.

I would consider a trip to the police station to ask for advice. I wouldn't play nicely with that bitch at all. A visit from a police officer might give her the kick up the arse she deserves (and I still wouldn't let her see DD after that). As parents, we must protect our DC from nasty people. Your mil is one of them.

Maybe yourself and DH need to consider giving counselling a go? Not couples counselling but separate - you both obviously have a lot of issues from your upbringing and it would be really worthwhile trying to get into a better headspace so you can try and put your past behind you