MIL hit DD (4) after being told repeatedly not to. NC against DH wishes?

[netflixandnappies]

I've been wanting to post but have been shy because of judgement but I really need help as I am NC with my own family and DH isn't with me

I don't mind MIL but culturally we are not the same. She thinks it's okay to hit kids and for the most stupid bullshit, like "answering back" or spilling something if being told not to touch it. It's like she gets a thrill out of being a disciplinarian for the sake of it, as opposed to actually caring about raising a responsible healthy kid. She teases me all the time with comments like: "That shit couldn't have run in my house!" like it's a status symbol for your kids to be afraid of you. I grew up getting hit for reason, my mother was lazy and sadistic. I despise her now and we are NC after trying to be close for years.

I've never left DD alone with MIL once she hit 2 because I know what she's like. She can be lovely, but also ghetto (I come from a working class background I mean nothing by it) impatient and petty. I noticed the more DD developed a personality, MIL chastised her more. Last year I heard MIL say "stop that or I'll spank you". I was in the loo, DH was on a conference call. I came back and politely told her we don't ever do that, and even if we did, we's never extend it beyond our own discretion. She rolled her eyes and I really put my foot down and said nearly verbatim (obviously I can't recount word for word) "If you ever touch my child I won't have you around again because there'd be no trust and she isn't even naughty, you're just impatient and I'm sorry, but a little ghetto". I said the ghetto bit in a sort of jokey / serious tone that I can honestly say she didn't take offence to. We are from the same background and she knows what I mean.

On Friday MIL was with us in the living room being perfectly sweet, DD wanted an ice cream from the van outside. We all said no (no treats due to an earlier transgression). MIL was telling her no and to sit down and stop looking out the window like a puppy. DD turned around and said "I don't care" in tears and MIL got up, pulled up her skirt and gave her a huge smack on her bum. I thought she was getting up to take her from the window bay and appease her but she hit her! It happened in literally 3 seconds! I was up and grabbing my child and doing the obvious "how dare you's" but didn't want more of a scene as DD was clearly distressed (she's never been hit, or threatened to be hit). DH was trying to calm everything down after hearing the commotion and I went upstairs to calm DD down. MIL is downstairs saying I'm too soft when our DD is an ordinary child behaviour wise. What 4 year old doesn't have the odd cheeky come back? What 4 year old doesn't have the odd tantrum? I come downstairs and and grab her bag and jacket off the bannister and ask her nicely to leave so we can sort this out. DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright. We agreed together no spanking but somehow because it's his mother he feels like I'm being a bitch! Like she should get a pass! He conceded she will probably do it again if she see's fit so I said NC with DC!! No point having family around your kids and having to walk on eggshells because they have a fucked up flaw. He's saying NC with DC is ridiculous, she's not a pedophile etc......That's his mother etc....

I'm crying as I type this because I dug myself out of the gutter and have no one to be proud of me. No mum to say well done. No family cheering when I got my medical degree. Nothing.

I imagine it is something your DD will appreciate a great deal as she gets older.

She will also appreciate that you put her well-being above her grandmother's desire to use her culture and status in the family as an excuse to physically abuse her. She may remember recent events for a long time and it will be good for her to know that you were prepared to stand your ground and defend her when she needed it.

You have a lot to be proud of

Ask your DH what he would do if DD tells one of her teachers that granny lifted up her skirt to smack her. Is he prepared to deal with social services and everything that would involve?

Your husband thinks his mum will never change. I think that's because she hasn't been given a chance to change. If the choice were no contact or agreeing to no hitting then maybe she will change.

Actually people set in their ways can change and argue themselves around to a new approach although they may need to convince themselves that this was their own choice.

Actually people set in their ways can change and argue themselves around to a new approach although they may need to convince themselves that this was their own choice.

Yes. My DM managed to do this when she had to come to terms with the fact that I wouldn't be told how to raise my child like I'd accepted being told everything else up until then. She was utterly explosive for a while but missing her DGD brought her round to the idea that I was now an adult who could make her own parenting decisions.

I would ask your DH the following in a very calm manner: Maybe write it down, get him to reply in pen. sometimes seeing something on paper helps it make more sense.

It sounds like your DH is afraid or ashamed to go against the grain of what his mother says (much like my DH was)

Do you feel the way we discipline our child works for us? Why?
Have we ever resorted to threats and physical violence? Why not?

Do you feel the way my mother treated me with phsyical harm was fair, or justified in any way?
do you feel you deserved physical punishments from your mother as a child? Do you feel they were always justified? or do you feel issues could have been resolved in a more loving way? why?
do you now feel that it would be acceptable for you to hit our child in future? would it be acceptable for me to hit our child? if so-which areas of the face or body would you find it acceptable to hit our child and why?
how do you think our child feels about their grandmother now this has happened? How do you think our child felt in that moment? how do you think our child felt about us as parents and protectors in that moment?
How do you think physical discipline affects a child emotionally?
how do you feel about knowing your mother is likely to repeatedly hit our daughter if in contact with her??

How would you feel if the person carrying out this act was a member of my family or a friend? How would you react?

What do you think as responsible parents should happen now?

Then I would assess the answers given, come to the conclusion that he has said that this either IS or ISN'T acceptable, and then lay out your expectations in full from that point.

He needs to understand that he cannot be "stuck in the middle" here. this is not You V his MOM. this is his mom V his 4 year old CHILD. V HIM. V YOU. there is no middle. Your family unit MUST be his priority.

she then needs to hear what you have decided from HIM.

(As a side note you told her before that if anything like this ever happened she'd not be in contact with your child. she was warned!!!!)

My MIL was cut off by my DH after years of him making excuses for her, until he started to see for himself that she had always been a narcissist, he was afraid of doing anything other than keeping her happy/off his case, that she was behaving in an extremely toxic manner towards our child, and that his marriage was under threat if he did nothing. I stopped her contact with our son, she turned on me and tried to get my husband to divorce me and eventually after alot of outward blame towards me shrouded in the shame of being a disloyal son, he put his chosen family first and 2 years NC we are happier than ever. obv NC is not for everyone but YOUR rules cannot be undermined. this isn't a case of grandma gives the kids kinder eggs and we'd rather she didn't, this is Physical Harm!

Its a VERY difficult situation you are in with your DH, one that can tear your relationship apart and very nearly did ours, but ultimately, your Child and their emotional wellbeing, their trust in you to keep them safe ALWAYS has to come first.

Good Luck xx

Really ?? It was a spanking, not a punch . Tbh it sounds like your daughter does need some discipline OP. Is your husband from Asia/Africa ?

I don't see anything wrong with a spanking , as long as it doesn't leave a mark. And I don't see how you can go NC if your husband doesn't agree - that's his mother and he is your DD's child. If you separated, he'd take her to his mum anyway (on his contact days). Hardly doubt you'd be able to prove 'abuse' because of spankings 🙄

Maybe it's cultural, but to me, your being over dramatic.

Feel like shit now. Thanks guys for your help but sent the text and she said "Get a life it was just a spanking Queen (my name). This is who we are the girl was naughty so I spanked her no big deal. You can't make my son check me thats MY BOY and I am his MAMMA and wives come and go but MAMMA's are forever"

I'm hiding in the toilet on my laptop on mumsnet crying because I have no family and the last tiny hint of normalcy I did have in the form of DD having a nanna is destroyed because she cannot be trusted. How sad am I? I did everything to feel like someone. Went to uni got the med degree am a GP, take care of people, nice house, lovely child. I did all this shit to validate myself and I'm still a little girl wanting a loving family and to be loved. Spineless father and its becoming spineless DH!!!!!!. If I had to go NC with my mum for her mental and physical abuse then I should only do the same with DD and MIL. It burns. No family but my DH and DD. DH won't go anywhere the poor sod and DD will leave us one day to have our own life. Being rejected by MIL kind of reminded me of being rejected by my family all over again. I have three siblings and parents i don't speak to. My dad is okay but spineless etc so I've gone soft NC with him. Makes me sad because I wanted DD to have cousins and a nanna and a loving family and all the things I didn't have. Her nanna hitting her has brought up all these emotions of me being hit and i feel sick. And DH being complacent reminds me of my own father's spinelessness when my psycho mother would lose the plot over spilt milk. LITERALLY SPILT MILK.

Just feel worthless and like a failure how could I let that bitch touch DD? It's happened and I can never take it back i feel like i failed my little girl. This text exchange has brought on some some sinister emotions, DH is shrugging and trying to kiss me and pass it off as his batty old mum. Feel like shit guys x

Spice, whether it's in your culture or not. If you ask a family member to respect your rules regarding discipline your dc then they should. The smacking is one thing, not respecting boundaries Is different

She sounds like a piece of shit, with no respect for you or your child. I wouldn't hesitate at going no contact.

Thats your point of view Spice but the OP has every right to disagree and expect her MIL to fall in line. If you want to ignore all clinical evidence that spanking is ineffective, counter productive and even harmful that's your business for your children.

You have to stay strong now or she will walk all over your rules. Tell her again, " your not listening to what I'm saying mil, if you can't respect your boundaries in our family then there's no place for you in it" stay strong

Also " grandparents can go but yes mamas are forever" cheeky bitch

What an unhelpful response Spice22. I can see only assume that you are posting from outside the UK, otherwise you would know that the authorities here would consider it to be abusive. And if you'd read the thread properly you'd already know the family background of the OP and her husband - Afro Caribbean/British

Just tell her it's not up for discussion, she does not get to hit your child, and that given her response you obviously can't trust her anywhere near your child in the foreseeable future. And tell your DH he has to use the backbone that enabled him to break away from his background and stick with you on this all the way.

What a horrible attitude you have, Spice. The only thing spanking a child achieves is to diminish their respect for the person responsible and teach them that violence is acceptable.

She's certainly taken the gloves off

Yes, your DH may feel caught in the middle because he doesn't want to face what she's truly like. But even if he won't, you have to, to protect your child.

YOU ARE NOT IN THE WRONG.
I want to give you a big hug

Take some deep breaths and go show the reply to him. You may not be able to talk this through properly tonight, you both need time to process everything and let the emotional heat subside a little.

And please, please, consider some counselling for yourself.

Use her own words back at her, OP: "Well I am DDs MAMMA and grandmas come and go but MAMMAs are forever".

Hold the line. Talk to your DH. She has shown that she intends to keep on regardless.

What a horrendous, callous bitch. You are clearly worth an infinite amount of her.

What do you mean by ghetto?

VladmirsPoutine Chavy

That's been explained Vlad and things have moved on a bit

Op have you replied? Please don't loose your cool this bitch needs telling

My blood is boiling reading this. What makes mil think she has the right to do that! I would have sent her straight out the house and told her she isn't coming back EVER again. NC is more than reasonable, if anyone laid a finger on my child they would never have contact with them again!

xStefx Nope just crying in the loo doing the food shop on sainsbury's like a good old sport. Can't forget DH's fucking nappies.

I was just going to say the same thing!

My DD - my rules -

As you clearly aren't sorry for causing unnecessary pain to a very young child - you leave no option for me to withdraw contact.

Any attempt to disapline my child again and I will no hesitate call social services and the police to report you. I will keep your text as proof of precious actions.

Tell DH you are DD will not be seeing his mother again unless she apologizes and agrees to your rules (and the law of the land)

If he won't budge - tell him as a mother you have the right to protect your DD