MIL hit DD (4) after being told repeatedly not to. NC against DH wishes?

[netflixandnappies]

I've been wanting to post but have been shy because of judgement but I really need help as I am NC with my own family and DH isn't with me

I don't mind MIL but culturally we are not the same. She thinks it's okay to hit kids and for the most stupid bullshit, like "answering back" or spilling something if being told not to touch it. It's like she gets a thrill out of being a disciplinarian for the sake of it, as opposed to actually caring about raising a responsible healthy kid. She teases me all the time with comments like: "That shit couldn't have run in my house!" like it's a status symbol for your kids to be afraid of you. I grew up getting hit for reason, my mother was lazy and sadistic. I despise her now and we are NC after trying to be close for years.

I've never left DD alone with MIL once she hit 2 because I know what she's like. She can be lovely, but also ghetto (I come from a working class background I mean nothing by it) impatient and petty. I noticed the more DD developed a personality, MIL chastised her more. Last year I heard MIL say "stop that or I'll spank you". I was in the loo, DH was on a conference call. I came back and politely told her we don't ever do that, and even if we did, we's never extend it beyond our own discretion. She rolled her eyes and I really put my foot down and said nearly verbatim (obviously I can't recount word for word) "If you ever touch my child I won't have you around again because there'd be no trust and she isn't even naughty, you're just impatient and I'm sorry, but a little ghetto". I said the ghetto bit in a sort of jokey / serious tone that I can honestly say she didn't take offence to. We are from the same background and she knows what I mean.

On Friday MIL was with us in the living room being perfectly sweet, DD wanted an ice cream from the van outside. We all said no (no treats due to an earlier transgression). MIL was telling her no and to sit down and stop looking out the window like a puppy. DD turned around and said "I don't care" in tears and MIL got up, pulled up her skirt and gave her a huge smack on her bum. I thought she was getting up to take her from the window bay and appease her but she hit her! It happened in literally 3 seconds! I was up and grabbing my child and doing the obvious "how dare you's" but didn't want more of a scene as DD was clearly distressed (she's never been hit, or threatened to be hit). DH was trying to calm everything down after hearing the commotion and I went upstairs to calm DD down. MIL is downstairs saying I'm too soft when our DD is an ordinary child behaviour wise. What 4 year old doesn't have the odd cheeky come back? What 4 year old doesn't have the odd tantrum? I come downstairs and and grab her bag and jacket off the bannister and ask her nicely to leave so we can sort this out. DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright. We agreed together no spanking but somehow because it's his mother he feels like I'm being a bitch! Like she should get a pass! He conceded she will probably do it again if she see's fit so I said NC with DC!! No point having family around your kids and having to walk on eggshells because they have a fucked up flaw. He's saying NC with DC is ridiculous, she's not a pedophile etc......That's his mother etc....

highinthesky Yes. That takes it toll everyday especially in the climate of the NHS. I have "ten" bloody minutes to decide if someone is seriously ill or not and it depresses me. So when I come home and things are meant to be in my control and I have to compromise my beliefs again for a functioning home, just like I must for a functioning NHS practise, it gives me so much anxiety. I don't want to go over my DH. I want us to be united. So even though I'm doing what's right for her, it still burns knowing her dad isn't on her side. Forget my side - We can even agree on paint. Her side.

You know, OP, your MIL is right that mothers are forever...and your daughter will always remember that her mother would not stand for her being assaulted, and protected her. As she gets older, she will understand more and more deeply exactly what you're going through now to protect her.

To be fair to your DH he has received this messages for the last (30?) years and it maybe the first time he needs to step up and side with someone else - it will feel alien to him and difficult to get his head round. He doesn't know what the consequences will be if he does that because it hasn't happened before.

Keep talking to him -

Astro55 He woke up DD with kisses and jokes, took her downstairs for fucking pancakes like the fucking super dad he is, while I lay up here sulking and depressed . He's always like that during the holidays and refuses to let me get up to help but it bothers me this time because it's like he thinks none of this matters as long as DD gets her pancakes and scooter ride with him to the post office. Sort of like "so what if my dd got a little spanking from her nana, i got loads and I'm a lawyer, she's got everything and I had nothing, it's just a spanking and even though I didn't like it i'll make sure it doesn't happen again. DW is being dramatic and she'll get over it."

They both came up with breakfast and got in bed with me. DH whispering in my ear to stop sulking and have a crumpet like its a joke ."I'll spank you if you don't stop sulking in bed like a sick puppy". I can't lie I smirked a little. DAMN! . DH is charming and he bloody masterminded this morning to soften me up and as a working mum it did soften me up a little to have my little family in bed with me when usually I'm rushing like a mad woman to work and he's already there. He was saying things like "see look isn't this all that matters" and "I'll make sure she doesn't do it again" but I feel like he's teasing me. I can't explain it. "I do care, I'm just not as angry as you, but I do care, don't make this into a mummy martyr thing" (i use that term in RL DH is taking the piss out of me)

"Get a life it was just a spanking Queen"

Jeez!

She takes pride in it, doesn't she?

Is it really tradition & culture for GMs to hit their GC when they deem it necessary, even when the GM is just visiting the GC's house?

It's sad that your husband is so shit scared of his mum that he's happy to have his mum "spank" his daughter as she sees fit.

Surely he can see how fucked up that is?

Your daughter is effectively at threat of abuse from his mum & he is enabling it.

diddl He is far from scared. He was really angry with her and they argued, then I came downstairs and asked her to leave. He just is reluctant for NC but conceded she isn't to be around DD unsupervised which is a cop-out because she never is anyway . He also agrees with the few weeks of NC but it's only because he thinks I'll calm down and that's whats pissing me off SO SO MUCH.

It actually sounds to me as though your MIL may have issues with your success and think that this kind of horrible practice is a way to bring you down.

As long as you can protect your DD and make sure she is never alone with your MIL, there may be no need to go NC. NC is a huge step - life changing - and only something that is a last resort.

Sorry I misunderstood.

NC is a big step, I agree.

He needs to bear in mind that she "spanked" your daughter whilst you were both there & it is so important to her to be able to do so that she won't promise not to do it again.

Why should you ever calm down about that?

He sounds awful thinking that as long as there is enough good the bad must be tolerated.

You need to keep that anger and keep your foot down Netflix. No doubt he DOES think you'll relent over this, but I'm afraid that this is where you need to stay strong and not give in.

When my mil was playing her games and throwing her tantrums about being pulled up on behaviours towards my son, my hisband minimised it and i felt obliged/forced to put a smile on my face and still see her after she'd been awful to me and we had a fall out. My husband was so used to things being swept under the carpet, big blow ups then acting like nothing had happened and I seriously wish I hadn't laid eyes on her ever again, as it kikd of gave her the ok that ahe xould do what she wanted, there was no consequence at that point and it only strengthened her self centred resolve and reinforced that my rules didnt matter.

Don't go back. Your husband might be a total diamond in every other aspect but he's trying to smooth it over and soften your resolve instead of dealing with it with consequences.

Given that this happened in front of both of you, he did nothing until you went mad and then stepped in, he probably has no idea how to handle the situation so hil saying he will make sure it wont happen again is him essentially saying he still wants you all to be in contact with his mother. Pancakes and jokes won't change her and he needs to get real.

Now you've said your piece, stick to your guns. You have clawed tour way up to where you are, don't let her or him drag you down trying to keep the peace.

OP you've handled yourself well. I've read the thread, and all other posts from yourself. It's very hard when DH isn't on side, and I have to say NC would be a final decision for me. She says YOU over reacted, and she would do it again. There's no way she would be anywhere near my child again. If my DH didn't agree with me on this, I'd sadly have to see it as the end of the relationship. I know this may sound extreme to some, but my son is my world and the thought of someone every touching him like that (especially 'family') would not be something I could 'forgive and forget'. She certainly wouldn't be stepping foot in my house again. I got hit a lot as a child, and all it did to me was make me scared of the two people that I should never of been scared of. I resent my parents big time, but they understand times have changed and they would never lay a hand on my son. Stick to your guns OP, and don't let your DH charm you out of your decision.

Loosing, absolutely. She assaulted your daughter. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Stick by your guns. If that happened to my own children I would go as far as reporting her . I've seen many many forms of childhood abuse through work and that needs nipping in the bud now.

I have had a similar issue with SIL, she hit my DS a few years ago, she has also done other stuff. I refused to have her in the house and went NC, my DS isn't bothered about seeing her and has seen her a couple of times since.He was 12 when she hit him and is now 16. It has caused a huge rift between my DH and I to the point I asked for a divorce at Christmas.

He has now agreed to couples counselling which I asked for over a year ago.

netflix I feel your pain. I don't like the JFDI school of management but sometimes you are left with no choice.

One of the most effective techniques I have seen is putting some clear distance between your household and MIL. Stay courteous and allow DH to make up his own mind about NC, but make it clear DD is not to be exposed to her, let alone be left under her supervision. If MIL visits you, its following a specific invitation and not unsolicited. Unless there are extenuating circumtances, do not go out of your way to keep in touch with her, and instead be reactive. This is one relationship that will benefit from benign neglect.

Its upto MIL to do the running and not you. Review only when you see evidence of genuine regret.

Netflix Your only response to MIL needs to be 'I'm the mamma now'. She needs to move over and back off.

You have given her way too much credit in your kind texts. She won't understand your approach, she sees herself as the matriarch of the family, and you aren't even on the ladder coming up through the ranks.

Take charge OP.

Don't let your DD ever ask 'why did you let her do that to me?'

Be brave.

I wouldn't be ok with my MIL smacking my child but have you really thought about the NC thing seriously? Obviously your DH doesn't agree with you so he's probably se her behind your back. Say you end up splitting up over this, he is as entitled to choose who sees his DD as you are. Can't you just agree to cut contact a little and never have her alone with your DD and tell her again that she is not responsible for disciplining your daughter.

Reply and say

'You're right. Mammas are for life. And I'm the Mamma now. You can discipline your son as you see fit, and see how he would deal with you pulling down his trousers and smacking him. You will not be seeing DD until I feel you can respect me as her parent and OUR choices for how she is raised and disciplined.'

And to the poster saying it sounded like your daughter needed a slap...for saying 'I don't care' and being sad about not getting an ice cream?!

Your daughter sounds like a completely normal 4 year old, and your punishment was already explained and in place. And smacking a child for being sad? Wtf that literally makes me feel sick.

I think - you have told her what you want, your DH has said he will not let her do it again and he cant say anymore than that.

Im glad he came up with breakfast and tried to make you smile, that's really nice. MIL would just love for you and him to fall out over this so don't, its done now. You can sit content that you weren't in the wrong, you have told her and you DH is backing you up, you have laid the law for any future incidents.

ohforfoxsake It's hard giving you all the information but I did forget to mention what happened when I took DD upstairs.

DD is wailing and is traumatised because we have never laid a hand on her, she's never seen another child be hit, and we forbid physical violence. Her school is amazing and also has a great dialogue about bullying etc. I take her up to her room trying to sooth her, run a warm bath and put her in. She's still freaking out because DH and MIL are shouting downstairs. Me and DH never argue and she's not used to the shouting. Plus DH is bloody annoyingly calm and collected so she's confused about her dad getting upset when he never does etc etc . DD is brown and her bum was as red as a white child's!! It was a hard slap. I dress her and explain to her that what happened will never happen again, Nanna is very wrong for doing that, I'm so sorry for not getting to you quick enough as I thought Nanna was going to sit you down, Daddy is very upset too and thats why he is shouting at Nanna etc No one is to ever touch your bottom ever whether its a slap or a pat etc etc etc Family members are never to ever touch you etc etc. Made me feel sick because it's bigger than an old fashioned Nanna slapping DD. It's also about boundaries with family members etc in general.

Welshrainbow We won't split up. I'll take DD for 24 hours and he'll shit himself. He's combating some complex emotions about his upbringing and I need to understand that although he is being a little flimsy now the situation has calmed down, it's mainly due to deep rooted issues of wanting the approval and presence of someone who doesn't give a shit. He will fall in line when after the few weeks of NC is up and she doesn't say sorry as I'll give him a reasonable ultimatum. If it got down to an ultimatum he'd choose us without blinking. But I'm not even saying he can't see his mum he can have fucking lunch with her everyday if he wants! You know what the issue is? He feels uncomfortable with her without DD and he knows it. He knows that if DD isn't allowed to see her, he's never see his mum again by his own choice.

Honestly, am not condoning any format so smacking/spanking whatever semanticsuits we choose, bit if it was that hard that her bum was red - that is a HARD hit. I would absolutely go NC if it's as hard as you are describing.

It's hard, when you realise as an adult, that what you thought of as 'normal' as a child actually isn't.

Could your DH be struggling to reconcile this? I imagine he feels somewhat conflicted maybe?

She sounds utterly horrendous. Hope she accepts your - utterly reasonable - response and leaves you and your poor DD in peace and that your DH supports you rather than minimising it

OP you're a star. DD might remember her Nanna slapping her, but she'll also, always, remember how you stood up for her and how you protected her afterwards. That feeling of safety she'll get from you is priceless