MIL hit DD (4) after being told repeatedly not to. NC against DH wishes?

[netflixandnappies]

I've been wanting to post but have been shy because of judgement but I really need help as I am NC with my own family and DH isn't with me

I don't mind MIL but culturally we are not the same. She thinks it's okay to hit kids and for the most stupid bullshit, like "answering back" or spilling something if being told not to touch it. It's like she gets a thrill out of being a disciplinarian for the sake of it, as opposed to actually caring about raising a responsible healthy kid. She teases me all the time with comments like: "That shit couldn't have run in my house!" like it's a status symbol for your kids to be afraid of you. I grew up getting hit for reason, my mother was lazy and sadistic. I despise her now and we are NC after trying to be close for years.

I've never left DD alone with MIL once she hit 2 because I know what she's like. She can be lovely, but also ghetto (I come from a working class background I mean nothing by it) impatient and petty. I noticed the more DD developed a personality, MIL chastised her more. Last year I heard MIL say "stop that or I'll spank you". I was in the loo, DH was on a conference call. I came back and politely told her we don't ever do that, and even if we did, we's never extend it beyond our own discretion. She rolled her eyes and I really put my foot down and said nearly verbatim (obviously I can't recount word for word) "If you ever touch my child I won't have you around again because there'd be no trust and she isn't even naughty, you're just impatient and I'm sorry, but a little ghetto". I said the ghetto bit in a sort of jokey / serious tone that I can honestly say she didn't take offence to. We are from the same background and she knows what I mean.

On Friday MIL was with us in the living room being perfectly sweet, DD wanted an ice cream from the van outside. We all said no (no treats due to an earlier transgression). MIL was telling her no and to sit down and stop looking out the window like a puppy. DD turned around and said "I don't care" in tears and MIL got up, pulled up her skirt and gave her a huge smack on her bum. I thought she was getting up to take her from the window bay and appease her but she hit her! It happened in literally 3 seconds! I was up and grabbing my child and doing the obvious "how dare you's" but didn't want more of a scene as DD was clearly distressed (she's never been hit, or threatened to be hit). DH was trying to calm everything down after hearing the commotion and I went upstairs to calm DD down. MIL is downstairs saying I'm too soft when our DD is an ordinary child behaviour wise. What 4 year old doesn't have the odd cheeky come back? What 4 year old doesn't have the odd tantrum? I come downstairs and and grab her bag and jacket off the bannister and ask her nicely to leave so we can sort this out. DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright. We agreed together no spanking but somehow because it's his mother he feels like I'm being a bitch! Like she should get a pass! He conceded she will probably do it again if she see's fit so I said NC with DC!! No point having family around your kids and having to walk on eggshells because they have a fucked up flaw. He's saying NC with DC is ridiculous, she's not a pedophile etc......That's his mother etc....

Argh. I only missed out on being in this situation because my mother died 3 years ago; I was already starting to take the DC out of the house (DS1 2.8yo, DS2 1.7yo) when they were in naughty moods to prevent the risk of her hitting them then.

I think you are totally in the right here OP.

I don't think going NC would be an overreaction. If my parents OR DH's parents gave DD a smack, they'd never be allowed to see her again. If DH tried to defend them he'd be out on his arse too. Violence is not discipline.

but says she will never ever keep her hands to herself if she feels DD needs a smack, although on a practical note he says I'm being dramatic because we can easily make sure she's never in a position to hit her again.
But she managed to smack her today, right in front of your nose. You know she "believes in" smacking, she knows you don't want it to happen and yet here we are, your dd smacked for something and nothing. In fact, not even something; just nothing.
Bottom line is, you cannot protect your dd from this happening again.

I know that's an oxymoron but DH is basically saying

• If MIL see's a window she will take it
• But if you are in control of the situation she won't but in.
• For example if I wasn't in my thoughts while DD was crying and said "I don't care" and instantly started berating her, I do concede MIL would have kept her arse glued to the sofa. It just happened so damn quickly before the words "Don't talk to nana like that" could even leave my mouth!

"What do I do about DH?"

Tell him to man the fuck up and think about his daughter's feelings in respect of being forced to have contact with a GM who hits her.

" I think he conceded she will never agree to not do it again"

So what's important to her-not her son, not her GD, just being able to carry on hitting when she wants.

" "I love my grandpickney but I'm not her friend, she must aways listen to me and show respect. Let her cry I don't care she will respect me"

What a load of bollocks. She willl hate her GM-and rightly so.

That was a calculated power play. I grew up in a house with hitting and I can categorically say it has done ongoing, untold harm that I am still trying to fix to this day. So no. It'd be NC from me till she swore on oath that she would never do it again. If she won't commit to that, then that's her own decision.

I think NC is the absolute extreme and preferable would be a sit down with mil where you reiterate the rules and dh backs you up. I would be asking her to stop the kissing of teeth, to me, that is almost as bad as saying fuck off.

Where does mil live in relation to you and how often do youhave to suffer see her? I'd be lowering but not totally stopping contact and she would never, ever have dd alone.

She was itching to hit your DD and by lifting her skirt she went for maximum humiliation and pain. And she did this with you in the room. You can't ever trust her to put your DDs welfare ahead of her free and easy hands.
I understand your husband's point of view but his DD must be number one priority.

Megatherium He knows it's wrong. Just like possession of coke is but if he's at a party and someone gets it out he's not calling the police is he? If anyone else did this he would have thrown them out himself. It's his mum.....He has a tricky relationship with her that's more on his side. She's always been indifferent to him IMO.

My SIL told me that I should hit DS to stop him touching his penis.
When he was 12months old.

I had a few years of hell dealing with my many SIL (massive family) until I learned to stand up for myself and stop trying to please them. I couldn't please them.
I love several of them dearly but am NC with several of them. I won't let them near my children and certainly not in my home.
You can imagine how that goes down.
I am white btw.

My MIL was a wonderful woman. Very classy and not a tiny bit 'ghetto'. She had some very odd (to me) views on child rearing but as she was an elderly woman from a very different background I could live with it.

OH's sisters on the other hand..

Realistically you need to make a choice continue as you are and risk it or create a united front to change the status quo. Personally I don't think you can say it will never happen again given her personality unless you change the dynamic of your relationship with her. I really think you need to take a step back and do a period of no contact. Not forever. Your mil is very intense and opinionated and it's going to take time. If she knows the relationship with her gc is on the line, she may not like it but she will have no choice but to listen. Given what you've told us about your dh, odds on somewhere in there is a highly intelligent woman. And she will have to use a bit of that brain power to work out how to behave to get what she wants, which will be access to your dd.

OK, so what happens if, no when, it happens again.

Netflix...at least you both can have a bit of a giggle about her.

It's a tough one! He's obviously very loyal. Maybe because she raised him alone. But he needs to be realistic. You both can't be watching her every move! And it sounds like she moved like a bloody ninja over to your DD!

Maybe explain to your DH that the NCT would be temporary...Maybe a fortnight but I guess it depends how often you see her to make the right impact. And then perhaps you both sit her down and explain why you did that and what you expect from her going forward! Almost sounds like disciplining child! Without the smacking of course. For now!

That's awful, OP. Really appalling behaviour from your MIL. I don't think you or she did anything wrong. You had already disciplined her (the ice cream) which is a totally appropriate punishment for a 4 year old.

I would have punched her in the face before I threw her out. And she would not see dd again.

And yes. I'm not one for logging everything with 101 but I would this I'd also rung nspcc.
Let the bitch know you did both of those.

You can't trust her around your DD or any future DC. Your DH needs to see that talkign to her doesn't work, she knew you wouldn't want your DD hit, she did it anyway while you were in the room.

She's prepared to cross lines ebcause she feels she has a right to. Cut contact, she is lucky you've not called the police.

CommonSenseIsNotAllThatCommon I agree. And you know what guys......I think she's jealous of what we can give her. Sorry - I just sense it. She jealous of my lack of temper, of me and her sons careers, of us working our arses off. That's what I mean when I say ghetto.

She took DH becoming a great lawyer as a middle finger to her. She's made up in her mind that him wanting to get out of the cesspool we were raised in that he judges her for raising him in it. She resents his resentment if that makes sense. It's the best she could offer at the time and she resents him for resenting it. She couldn't afford for DH to get an ice cream if she wanted to give him one. I think it bothers her that DD knows she can spill a glass of orange juice by accident and get another glass from a full fridge. I think it bothers her that when DD is sent to her room is a big one and DD can entertain herself with a picture book etc. I think it bothers her that we take DD to museums and when DD asks questions we patiently answer instead of telling her to be quiet. I'm crying as I type this because I dug myself out of the gutter and have no one to be proud of me. No mum to say well done. No family cheering when I got my medical degree. Nothing.

TheFirstMrsDV: My SIL told me that I should hit DS to stop him touching his penis. When he was 12months old.

Good grief. She has some very deep-seated ishoos. I thought it was practically a rite of passage for all boys to be obsessed with their junk from the day they discovered its existence? When my DS (3) remembers his, he likes to pull it (so he can inspect it more closely) in a way that makes my eyes water. Her kids are going to grow up with some bizarre personal hang ups.

you're so welcome!
As for your dh - would he be able to imagine what it would feel like, from the child's point of view, to be hit or labelled naughty just for thinking what you're thinking and saying what you're feeling? Or maybe he feels like he was brought up that way so he knows. (But most of us don't have a lot of memories of age 4). I found that "how to talk so children listen... " book really helpful that way - one theme was really listening to how we are speaking -- for example if someone barked 'tidy up your bedroom NOW' when we were in the middle of something, most of us would be pissed off / petulant / "back chatting" too. Do you think your DH would be willing to read it, or anyway start thinking a bit more deliberately about the whys and whats of parenting?
Maybe rather than talking about going NC just say that for now you are not ok with your DD being in an environment where an adult feels entitled to hit her at the slightest (or indeed any) provocation. That "for now" can be vague, and can last until you are assured that it will NEVER happen again.. If you never get that assurance then the "for now" could be for a long time.
(and anyway there are much worse things than being "a soft parent". if your dc are happy, healthy and polite, no point in taking joy out of things for the sake of not being "soft" - not that you're doing that, but who cares if you're "soft" anyway?)

Ghetto but thinks she's the matriarch right? Show her who's the boss. If that means NC so be it. My sister has similar issues she sat her MIL down and gave her a few home truths. MIL didn't like it but now keeps her distance a bit and is more considered.

Netflix it's a very paltry thing to read from some nobody on the internet, but having dragged myself up (admittedly not from the lows you have - maybe half the distance) I know how hard that is so I stand in awe of you. More to the point, I wholeheartedly applaud you doing everything you can to give your DD an even better springboard to leap from into her future. Keep onwards.

Your dh needs to get real. A relationship where you have to CONSTANTLY be with dd to make sure her grandmother doesn't hit her isn't a relationship- it's visitation. And trust me, it is not worth it with a grandmother who can't be trusted behind a pane of glass.

To be blunt, culture has fuck all to do with it. She sounds like a monstrous bitch

There is absolutely no way in fuck I'd let my dc around this woman, supervised or not.

Please don't think I'm being patronising, but bloody well done to the pair of you for, as you say, clawing yourselves out. It's an extremely difficult thing to do with little or no parental support and you should be damned proud of yourselves

If my mother hit me nobody would bat an eyelid about me never seeing her again and I'm pretty sure it would never be talked about as being to extreme.

Children are either as worthy of dignity and safety as adults are or they are not.