MIL hit DD (4) after being told repeatedly not to. NC against DH wishes?

[netflixandnappies]

I've been wanting to post but have been shy because of judgement but I really need help as I am NC with my own family and DH isn't with me

I don't mind MIL but culturally we are not the same. She thinks it's okay to hit kids and for the most stupid bullshit, like "answering back" or spilling something if being told not to touch it. It's like she gets a thrill out of being a disciplinarian for the sake of it, as opposed to actually caring about raising a responsible healthy kid. She teases me all the time with comments like: "That shit couldn't have run in my house!" like it's a status symbol for your kids to be afraid of you. I grew up getting hit for reason, my mother was lazy and sadistic. I despise her now and we are NC after trying to be close for years.

I've never left DD alone with MIL once she hit 2 because I know what she's like. She can be lovely, but also ghetto (I come from a working class background I mean nothing by it) impatient and petty. I noticed the more DD developed a personality, MIL chastised her more. Last year I heard MIL say "stop that or I'll spank you". I was in the loo, DH was on a conference call. I came back and politely told her we don't ever do that, and even if we did, we's never extend it beyond our own discretion. She rolled her eyes and I really put my foot down and said nearly verbatim (obviously I can't recount word for word) "If you ever touch my child I won't have you around again because there'd be no trust and she isn't even naughty, you're just impatient and I'm sorry, but a little ghetto". I said the ghetto bit in a sort of jokey / serious tone that I can honestly say she didn't take offence to. We are from the same background and she knows what I mean.

On Friday MIL was with us in the living room being perfectly sweet, DD wanted an ice cream from the van outside. We all said no (no treats due to an earlier transgression). MIL was telling her no and to sit down and stop looking out the window like a puppy. DD turned around and said "I don't care" in tears and MIL got up, pulled up her skirt and gave her a huge smack on her bum. I thought she was getting up to take her from the window bay and appease her but she hit her! It happened in literally 3 seconds! I was up and grabbing my child and doing the obvious "how dare you's" but didn't want more of a scene as DD was clearly distressed (she's never been hit, or threatened to be hit). DH was trying to calm everything down after hearing the commotion and I went upstairs to calm DD down. MIL is downstairs saying I'm too soft when our DD is an ordinary child behaviour wise. What 4 year old doesn't have the odd cheeky come back? What 4 year old doesn't have the odd tantrum? I come downstairs and and grab her bag and jacket off the bannister and ask her nicely to leave so we can sort this out. DH is upset but thinks it's just a spank and he got loads when he was a kid and he turned out alright. We agreed together no spanking but somehow because it's his mother he feels like I'm being a bitch! Like she should get a pass! He conceded she will probably do it again if she see's fit so I said NC with DC!! No point having family around your kids and having to walk on eggshells because they have a fucked up flaw. He's saying NC with DC is ridiculous, she's not a pedophile etc......That's his mother etc....

Your dh is being unrealistic if he thinks your mil will never have the opportunity to smack your dd again. Today she's 4. She won't be 4 forever and she won't want you constantly hovering. And it won't be practical to hover either.

xStefx If it wasn't for my DD I would have but I was so focused on how distressed she was. When I came downstairs MIL wasn't being gobby for a change she was sulking so she saved herself.

Good for you OP. I really don't like the phrases "back chat" or "talking back". Children should be able to express their views, disappointments, frustrations and we can help them work through it (without buying them the ice cream!) and give them the skills to deal with disappointment or conflict without anyone getting hit.

I'd have gone batshit crazy at her. You don't hit another person's child. End of.

However, what I think is really worrying is that she knew your feelings on this and did it anyway. The comments about how you are too soft are also undermining you and your parenting skills. Maybe I'm running away with myself, but I wonder if she gets a bit of a kick or enjoys the power out of all of this. You choose to parent your daughter one way, she feels this throws doubt on the wisdom of smacking her children, so is going out of her way to prove your daughter's naughty and the disciplinarian method is best.

Like I said, maybe my imagination is running away with itself. But if that is what is going on, then definitely re-assert some boundaries by NC until she apologises and agrees to respect your rules.

I was thinking the same as above poster EE looking out of the window. In fact a 4yo yearning for something they can't have due to punishment is a good lesson - it generally means they are learning as it's having an effect.

I also agree that it's reasonable for you to go no contact.

I'd simply tell your DH that he knows as you do through your respective careers of a mark had been left that would be assault and if it happened again and dd disclosed it wasn't the first time you and dh could face difficulty both with ss and your employment.

Imagine if a neighbour saw this you could have had social services involved. NC is the absolute minimum, until she's promised never to do it again. It wasn't like she tapped her hand because she was trying to touch the stove. This is outrageous behaviour and what makes it worse is the bare bum, so traumatic. Your DH needs to get with the programme ASAP.

"He loves his mum so much and see's her as simply flawed."

Does he not love his daughter enough to protect her from being whacked on a whim by another adult?

Didiusfalco DH doesn't even seem like he's being a bastard though and trust me I'm quick to throw him under the bastard bus. He genuinely believes she won't listen to him and is horrified at the notion of saying she can't see DD. Again, culturally, it's quite an insult and big deal to go NC. As he said; "She's not a pedophile". (If an uncle had looked at DD in a way that displeased DH he'd go NC without blinking). He's just very very very meek when it comes to his Mum. Furthermore if he goes NC for DD then he see's it as weird and awkward seeing her alone. It will be an elephant in the room. MIL loves DD fiercely I won't take that away from her. She's just.....a nutter.

Ghetto basically means deprived. Deprived of class, education, manners and taste. Where I live 'Chav' is for common white people. 'Ghetto' is for common black people. Although white people are often labelled as Ghetto if they adopt a 'black' style.

I thought it was bad enough when my MIL threatened to bite my one-year-old if he bit her again. She wasn't joking. she told me that when DH had bitten her as a baby, she bit him hard enough to make him cry and he never did it again! She also advised me that it was sometimes necessary to hit a child to stop them from touching something hot, running into a road or for hitting someone else.

Funny enough I've managed to raise 5 children (eldest 16) without smacking them.

I would expect an apology and a guarantee that she will never do it again. I would expect my DH to make it very clear that if she didn't respect this, then she would not be seeing us anymore.

Why have this nasty woman around your DC?

I had a "difficult" mother whilst growing up, and reading your OP made my hands go numb for a bit. And gave me the shivers.

Please do not allow your DCs to be subjected to this.

OP - you did really bloody well to calmly ask her to leave. I'd have likely lost my shit at her! She cannot play dumb here....sounds like you were previously very very clear about how you both feel about smacking.

Someone else said her reaction to slap her was calculated...it actually sounded more instinctual which is about right if that's how she raised your DH. Instinctual is a little scarier because it's quick and reactive.

I'd certainly never leave her alone with DD. Do you think (and it sounds like maybe not from your description of her) that if you go heavy on the guilt it might make her think twice about doing it again. As in, your relationship with your GD has been massively impacted and she doesn't want to be around you atm. Hammer home what impact it's had on your DD?

cordeliavorkosigan Thank you so so so so so so MUCH!! I come from a background where this kind of thinking if often sneered upon. I'm hardly a soft parent - No misbehaviour goes unchecked but you don't need to shout, smack etc to be firm. She didn't get the ice cream and was crying - That's perfectly normal to me. Some Caribbean parents take offence to the crying and will say "stop crying or I will give you something to cry about". It's genuinely seen as naughtiness to cry.

I'm sorry but I don't even hit my DC. So I'll be buggered if anyone else takes it on themselves to do so. I would be NC too, I would be saying to DH sort this out now!

She has been dying to hit your DD and in the end she did.
Keep her away from your child, she is spiteful and probably jealous.
Children don't need hitting. It is wrong and actually illegal.

Obviously it wasn't necessary to smack your child at all - but why was it necessary to do it right in front of you?? Clearly that wasn't just about 'discipline'.

Also, wtf is with lifting her skirt??

If you go no-contact with her, and your DH doesn't agree, he'll just take your DD around to see her without you being there to enforce the no-smacking rule. Then they'll both tell your DD 'don't tell mum' and she'll be even more confused and upset.

If your DH doesn't agree to go no-contact, your best bet is to see her when you are both there and make sure one of you is close to your DD at all times so that if she misbehaves you can pull her out of the room 'for a talk' before granny gets her hands into play.

You could also tell your MIL that smacking so that it leaves a mark is illegal, and if the mark shows up at school (during changing for PE for instance) the teacher will have to report it to social services and she will have to answer to them.

Yanbu. If it was me I would say she wasn't allowed to see DD for a certain amount of time - perhaps six months perhaps a year - and then only if MIL apologises to the child. No reason DH shouldn't talk to and see his mum though - just not around DD.

Then after the time expired before I would allow her to see DD I would have a quiet word when DH not there and basically say if you ever touch my child I will have you arrested. There was a family in Denmark who had all their children taken into care by social services last year because they spanked one. Spanking is a big deal But particularly where as here it was dor no reason (a 4 year old wanting an ice cream is normal!)

TooFew MIL: "I love my grandpickney but I'm not her friend, she must aways listen to me and show respect. Let her cry I don't care she will respect me"

I said "this isn't 50 shades of grandparenting" to DH and he nearly wet himself. It did lighten the mood.

but says she will never ever keep her hands to herself if she feels DD needs a smack

Then she needs to be told that if she can't control herself like a normal adult, then you can't trust her around your DD. It's all very well your DH saying you will make sure that she never has the opportunity, it didn't work today, did it?

I know someone who went nc with her in laws for telling her to smack her tired reception class daughter while playing up over the xmas holiday so yanbu.

^ it was quite a large argument that followed during which they told her she wasn't caring enough about her daughter and they cared more which was rather insulting to a purposefully SAHM with a background in teaching.

Guys - Help! What do I do about DH? He is a mama's boy even though she raised him poorly and teachers took over and pushed him. He has no dad and see's NC with DD as breaking up the family (he has a complex I think) I think he conceded she will never agree to not do it again to not disrespect my intelligence, but he also wanted to drive home that the opportunity will realistically never arise again as if we tell her to stay out of it she will. However as another poster said I shouldn't have to bloody hover!

Definitely go non contact.

OP, I was born and raised in Brazil, where corporal punishment is not only accepted, but expected of parents (our previous president made it a crime, and the public outcry was awful).

Like many children, I got some good slaps in my butt during my childhood. In fact, I actually got it pretty light, compared to some others: Once at a sleepover when my friends and I were 7, one of them was extremely surprised my father had never struck me with Havaianas or a leather belt.

I do not resent my parents, because they did not know better. Now they do, but even if they didn't, they are aware I will fly on them like a mama bear if they ever lay a finger in any future child I might have.

Stand your ground.

I am not against smacking, but if a parent decides their children will have a non smacking education, it should be law for their family.
YANBU, she was completely out of order. YOU decide the way to discipline your child, she most certainly does not.

I'm surprised your husband tolerates this, given that he's a lawyer. Although reasonable chastisement by parents is still allowed, he must know that someone else hitting a child when the parents have strictly forbidden it is criminal assault.

Why does he have so much faith that she will stay out of it if you tell her to? After all, you told her not to hit your child and she ignored that.