To think this is disrespectful and lazy

[Lakegeneva40]

So background. I am a Sah to 3 DC. Dh works long hours and earns a good salary which I guess enables me to Sah and improve my education.
We had booked a weeks holiday but dh aS unable to get the full week off. So rather than the kids miss out I drove down on the Saturday and dh followed Monday night.
The night before I left. The kitchen was immaculate as no one wants to return home to a dirty kitchen.
So this morning dh took kids off to a theme park before driving home.
I finished off the packing and cleaning etc and drove straight home to make a start on the laundry etc. (Watch casualty)
When I arrived I found a dirty frying pan and utensils left on the side.
Aibu to lose my rag when he returns. It's lazy and disgusting right.

FortheSakeOfFuck and MrGrumpy I agree with you both.

Sometimes i've left stuff out and dh clears up after me, he always says i'm messy. He doesn't make a big deal out of it, we all have our faults. I'd be seriously upset if he made a row over it.

RainbowsAndUnicorn: Forthesakeof, if partners shouldn't be a burden to each other then the husband should clean up after himself and the Op should finance herself. Leaving a few dishes on the side is hardly the sam burden as needed your every cost paid for.

Reread what I said about "equal distribution of labour" and "playing to your strengths". That doesn't remotely translate into "each should do exactly the same as the other, or else it's not fair". If OP's DP wants to leave shit lying about for OP to do, then in turn, he needs to pick up another chore and take it off OP's plate. So like I said, I never cook in our house. It's my OH's job - a fact for which all the occupants, including myself, are very grateful. In turn, my OH never stacks the dishwasher or wipes the counters or hob. He puts a nice dinner on the table every night, and I clean up after it. I sort all the household bills and admin. He sorts all the car bills and admin. I clean the bathrooms and kitchen. He vacuums the carpets and empties the bins. During the day he takes care of our DC, thereby saving us money, and I go out to work, thereby earning us money. And just sometimes, I put his shoes away, because he forgot, and he puts my coffee cup in the dishwasher, because I forgot. We don't snipe at each other for the one offs because it comes out pretty equal in our house. So, are we doing exactly the same? No. But neither one is freeloading off the other. If I was always putting his shoes away and he was never putting my coffee cup away, we'd go back to the period in our lives where I trained him right out of that shit.

And if you'd read all of OP's posts, you would see that it wasn't an isolated incident. It was one in a long line of incidents that paint an overall picture of a SAHP who is doing everything morning till night, seven days a week, and a DH who thinks that earning a wage excuses him not only from taking up any of the general household duties when he gets home, but even from clearing up after his own self.

aprilsdelight: Sometimes i've left stuff out and dh clears up after me, he always says i'm messy. He doesn't make a big deal out of it, we all have our faults. I'd be seriously upset if he made a row over it.

Without knowing how the rest of your house runs (and you're under no obligation to tell me, of course) it might be that you counterbalance that one annoying habit with ten amazing things that he loves and enjoys very much indeed. In that case, I wouldn't grumble much either and would take that slight annoyance as a tiny cost of having all the other good things.

Being a SAHM isn't that hard once the kids are at school though is it? I'm not referring to the OP, just sahms in general.

Well it is the school holidays now. I have just calculated that childcare would be £75 per day. So if I wasn't available that is how much childcare would cost.
So I am hardly freeloading off his salary.
Yes being a Sah is easier once children are at school.
Although I plan to be back at work before Dd3 starts school.

aprilsdelight: Being a SAHM isn't that hard once the kids are at school though is it? I'm not referring to the OP, just sahms in general.

Sure, but it isn't an endless breeze of no responsibilities either. And I assume that someone (probably OP) was the primary carer when each of her DC were in their intensive, demanding, sleepless pre-school phases. Even if there was overlap between those 0-4 year age ranges for her three DC, that would still be literally years of slogging through the really hard, never-ending part of parenting that goes on night and day. In return, allowing the OP the chance to do whatever she needs to reignite her career seems exceptionally fair to me. After all, for all those years, her DH's career has been progressing because OP enables it. Meanwhile, hers remains at a standstill, and in some lines of work, she will even have to go back a step or five to re-enter the same industry. If they divorce, he walks away with an extra ten years of seniority and all the salary that goes with it. She gets to go back to where she left off, if her line of work allows it.

If my OH decides, when our DC go to school, that he wants to do a degree, training, or whatever else for a few years to upskill/reskill, I would consider it wildly unreasonable of me to resent him using the DCs' at-school time in that way. After all, I'll have spent the last seven or eight years making major strides forward in my career. Why is it fair that he has to just pick up where he left off? How is that even good for our family to take that line? In undertaking her training, the OP is investing for the good of her family's future and providing extra security, should she and her DH divorce, or he have a heart attack, or whatever. She's also working towards extra income for the whole family. That's not something OP should feel "grateful" to be allowed to do, nor should her DH even think of making her feel that way. It's a damned smart, common-sense move that benefits them all in countless ways, and if he doesn't see that then he's a tool.

Sorry OP. I keep getting militant all over your thread. I want to go clonk your DH round the head, shake him, and tell him to realise what a fucking awesome woman he's married to. If you can manage it in the future, be away with work for one of the next school holidays and let him do a fortnight on his own. There's no education quite like being at the coalface all by yourself.

God, Fuck none of that is remotely militant. It's simply egalitarian. I would be deeply baffled by anyone who found that in any way militant (but I've not kept up with the thread, so maybe no one is...)

to realise what a fucking awesome woman he's married to. If you can manage it in the future, be away with work for one of the next school holidays and let him do a fortnight on his own
What's awesome about studying for a better job when you've got kids. Thousands of women (and men) up and down the country do the same. It's people who manage to do it with the odds stacked against them, who have no financial support who are awesome. My Dd would love to be able to study for a better job but she's working full time, there's literally not enough hours in the day. I think she is awesome and those like her.

I also dont understand how the op could let her dh have the kids for a fortnight while she goes away, doesn't he have to work.

What's so awesome about studying whilst out of work? If OP was a single parent, working full time and studying it would be awesome but when you have all day free every day with someone else paying for it then it's hardly hard work.

aprilsdelight: What's awesome about studying for a better job when you've got kids.

At what point did I say she was awesome for that alone? I think she is awesome for raising three children, shouldering what appears to be the vast majority of the general household duties and childcare including a DC that isn't yet at school, and studying in a way that invests in the future for her whole family. You don't judge that as awesome? Suit yourself.

Thousands of women (and men) up and down the country do the same. It's people who manage to do it with the odds stacked against them, who have no financial support who are awesome. My Dd would love to be able to study for a better job but she's working full time, there's literally not enough hours in the day. I think she is awesome and those like her.

Good for you thinking your DD is awesome. She deserves someone to view her like that. But you realise that this isn't a zero-sum game in which me calling OP awesome somehow detracts from your DD, right? The OP can still have her merits, and your DD can have hers. It's also a race-to-the-bottom to argue that only others in worse situations deserve praise and that OP's situation somehow isn't "bad enough". OP's case is not good. There is no national ranking of "things we can care about and things we can't". I care about this. If it were the point of this thread, I would care about your daughter's case too, but bluntly, it isn't, and has no bearing on OP's situation, so it should be left out of this instance.

I also dont understand how the op could let her dh have the kids for a fortnight while she goes away, doesn't he have to work.

Reread what I wrote. I put " If you can manage it in the future, be away with work for one of the next school holidays and let him do a fortnight on his own. There's no education quite like being at the coalface all by yourself." Do you assume, by default, that if both parents are working, that it's the mother's role to take time off and care for the children during holidays? Can't the DH do this? And if he can't possibly take the time off whilst OP is away on my fictional work trip, then he would have to pay for childcare during the day, come home once he'd finished work and - god forbid - do dinners and bedtimes and breakfasts and wake-ups with his three DC along with all the household duties and chores that go with it. All by himself.

So my 3DC look after themselves all day?
Funny how if I sent them to kids clubs so I could work and have some economic importance I would have to pay £75 per day for the privilege.
Incidentally I did a fairly intensive two year course working full time per DC and still managed to run a home.

RainbowsandUnicorn: What's so awesome about studying whilst out of work?

Once again, I didn't say she was awesome for that alone. Read what I wrote in the above post to April.

If OP was a single parent,

Based on her description, it seems that for large parts of the week, she more or less is in practice, even if not on paper. And if you want to go back to the "but he earns money so she's not single" line, if she divorces him and becomes a true single parent, he would still have to pay child support and she would reduce her workload since she'd no longer have him to tidy up after. She might also get the chance to leave them with him and get some evenings, weekends, and holidays entirely to herself. He'd actually probably end up doing more if they split.

working full time and studying it would be awesome

She is working full-time - taking care of her preschooler, doing the household duties, and picking up after her DH. Money may not come in from that, but just as importantly, money is stopped from pouring out because of what she does.

but when you have all day free every day

You seem to keep forgetting about this preschooler - you know, the one that isn't in school yet? And the fact that OP does the majority of the daily household duties, including picking and carrying after her DH who thinks he's too important to tidy up after himself. That is not "having all day free every day".

with someone else paying for it then it's hardly hard work.

After everything that's been said about how she is saving their household a ton of money at a direct loss to her own career advancement and salary progression, you still come back to the "someone else is paying" tripe? OP has probably done more hours in the early slog of baby/toddler parenting than her DH will do at his workplace in two decades. Her training ultimately benefits all of them in household security, a better income, and setting a good example for her DCs. This notion that her training is somehow a "perk" or a "bonus", and that it's not hard work with a preschooler around plus two other DCs to take care of outside of school-time and all the other household duties to take care of is just mind-blowing. Yes, other people have it harder. That doesn't mean OP has it easy.

These kinds of arguments are exactly why women's time and achievements and careers are substantially devalued in society.

Thank you for the sake of Your reply was so much better than mine.

Lake, don't only think of your work in terms of childcare costs. When I became a Sahm we sorted out life insurance etc. I calculated what sort of pay out my dh would need in order to be able to keep working as he did and for life to remain materially the same for our dc. It turned out he would need an income of almost double his salary on top of his earnings.

Op's case is not good
Oh please, what have we heard that's that bad. Why are you saying ops husband is too important to pick up after himself, massive presumption there. But really it's ridiculous to say someone is awesome just because they study while they have children to look after. As ridiculous as saying Ops dh is awesome to provide a good standard of living through working long hours.

Op's case is not good
Oh please, what have we heard that's that bad. Why are you saying ops husband is too important to pick up after himself, massive presumption there. But really it's ridiculous to say someone is awesome just because they study while they have children to look after. As ridiculous as saying Ops dh is awesome to provide a good standard of living through working long hours.

April: Oh please, what have we heard that's that bad.

I know this sounds radical, April, but each of us is allowed to read OP's posts and come to our own conclusions and form our own opinions. What she has written across all of them strikes me as bad. Not your assessment? Fine. But you don't get to prescribe to others how they should view it.

Why are you saying ops husband is too important to pick up after himself, massive presumption there.

So call him lazy. Ignorant. Thoughtless. Selfish. It doesn't matter what the reason is for his overall conduct. It's not a positive one.

But really it's ridiculous to say someone is awesome just because they study while they have children to look after.

Again, we're back to that radical idea that you can assess this one way, and I can assess it another. Not impressed by OP? Shrug and carry on. I am impressed, and I'm happy to tell OP so. Disagree? Fine. But that doesn't make either of us wrong. That's the nature of an opinion. It is not a fact. It's a subjective assessment. Have a different one, by all means, and allow me the same right of having mine.

As ridiculous as saying Ops dh is awesome to provide a good standard of living through working long hours.

If he was working 100 hours per week and in doing so, entirely funding replacements for his parenting (e.g. nanny, maid, etc.) I'd describe his efforts as awesome too. I'd think it desperately sad that he would miss out on his DCs' childhoods, but that would be his choice. Otherwise I would describe him as an awesome working parent if he did his work, came home and immediately shared the remaining hours of parenting/chores on evenings and weekends, and did something on the side to benefit his family in the long term. Otherwise if he just works/parents/chores fairly, then he is doing no more or less than he should be doing.

Well like you say we all have our opinions, let's leave it at that. What is awesome to one will not be to another.I do find many people awesome, maybe the op is, but Id need to know a lot more about her before i'd say that. Having a DH who doesn't pick up after himself doesn't automatically make his partner "awesome" imo.

April: Having a DH who doesn't pick up after himself doesn't automatically make his partner "awesome" imo.

That doesn't qualify for me either, but then I already explained why I came to my conclusion in PPs.

Anyway, as you say, let's agree to disagree. It is very much and o'clock and since I can't have either right now , if you get the chance, have some for me.

Wish i had some too forthesakeof , never mind, tomorrow night perhaps.