'There is no need for feminism in first world countries because females are no longer oppressed...'

[TinyRick]

And apparently we have 'more rights than men now'.

One example of many - www.debate.org/opinions/women-are-not-oppressed-in-first-world-countries

I was going to post this on the Feminism boards but I have heard this from females too so thought I would post here to see views from those who do think this and agree with it.

I'm on a social media site and this comes up quite often. Yes, quite presumably from young males but I have also read about the 'Red Pill' and the 'MGTOW' movements which are mostly populated by the older males.

Aibu to think that Feminism in the first world is still needed and as relevant as ever? And amongst our 'luxuries' we are still the oppressed class?

Talk to teenage girls, especially a group and you will still get a lot of tales of unwanted sexual attention including cat calling, wolf whistles, hoots from cars etc.
Feminism is about equality - so can fight just as much to get a culture where more men take parental leave, as to give women the right to choose to wear heels or not to work.

The battle will be far closer to being "won" when you see a sitcom in which a woman battles with "flooding" and its not shocking, but actually funny.
I have no problem with women wearing burkas, and could even imagine wearing most of a burkini myself (not that bothered about covering my hair) - certainly far more likely than some "string" bikini.

It takes effort and can be uncomfortable to realise just how much some groups are "oppressed". I have to work hard to even "glimpse" just what it must be like to be a black mother - even in my nice safe town.

"If you think I'm wrong [and feminism is needed], how do you explain the numbers of people deserting feminism?"

Even back before women could vote, there's always been a large proportion of women (maybe even a majority) who claim to be repulsed by anything to do with women's rights.

Women are constantly patted on the back for declining to make a fuss. The qualities of passivity, politeness, being accommodating and generally hanging back in a secondary role are praised.

Women know that, if you step out of line, there's a whole arsenal of techniques to shut you up. Gaslighting: what rape culture? what pay gap? The implication that you're a crazy, bitter, man-hating hysteric, which is supported by an entire gender-specific vocabulary of words used to diminish women who talk/argue too much.

There's nastier stuff, too, with implicit threats of violence and sexual assualt. You should have seen the Women's March in London's FB group before it was obliged to be members only. An awful lot of men turned up to explain, with visual aids, that women have it worse in Saudi Arabia, so gobby cunts like us should STFU or we might get what's coming to us.

I don't really blame any woman for initially, instinctively drawing back from the word 'feminist'. Why make life harder for yourself? Why stick your head above the parapet to be laughed at, patronised and threatened? I do, however, think that people like STFU, who post in elaborate detail and condescending tone about how we're all simply imagining mainstream misogyny and sexism, are part of the problem, not just a symptom of it. Your views on whether men should temporarily modify their behaviour in order to stop a woman feeling threatened (of course not! what if the man is slightly inconvenienced?) are particularly nasty.

I have to work hard to even "glimpse" just what it must be like to be a black mother - even in my nice safe town.

You mean you black up?

This makes no sense.

We are so oppressed that when men or penis-possessors who like to dress as women or think of themselves as women tell us we are not women and must not call ourselves women, we have to accept that.
Pregnant persons? And we're not oppressed?

Why do we need MRA's? After all, men have it worse in other countries.

Yes some girls do better in schools here, but nobody is stopping boys going to school! Its their choice if they dont knuckle down. The one with the milky breasts often end up in the 'second' job because they are the prumary carers, and courts often take stability for children into account so the woman 'gets' the children and the house to put them in. But at least the man has contact with his children and the house will still be an asset when the kids grow up. There are countries out there where men have no children or houses at all!

ARumWithAView

Ah, you went straight from internalised misogyny to "men threaten us".

What do you mean by "elaborate detail"? Taking the time to explain my feelings?

So, you think the man should have sat in the rain on a corner because a woman may have felt threatened (for no good reason) and for believing that he was a nasty attacker waiting to pounce?

I'm nasty for suggesting that maybe he shouldn't? Do you genuinely think so?

So are men rapey or not?

What do you think?

So. Being a bit worried if you think an unknown man might be following you is paranoid, and why should the man inconvenience himself by crossing the road to reassure you. But always look out for yourself and your friends, don't get drunk or wear revealing clothes because you might be putting yourself at risk of rape or sexual attack.

Which is it, STFU?

Only an idiot/brainwashed/misogynist would consider feminism no longer needed.

The proliferation of statistics/evidence that proves this renders even the questioning of it embarrassing at best.

And as for MRAs , I would feel nothing but shame identifying as such. Its like Nazis claiming the Jews hurt their feelings.

Have you considered following your own advice, STFU?

lets be honest the woman walking alone at night or the woman at the petrol station late at night shouldn't have been there - they should have been at home - preferably in the kitchen

I can't seriously bring my self to care much about hurting mens feelings when my experience of life tells me - as a lone woman - I am vulnerable to assault by men - sorry if my experiences of rape and assault offend men not sorry

I don't think he should have crossed the road or waited on the corner. Why should he? If it had been raining, should he have stood getting cold and wet in the rain because someone had tricked her into believing in 'rape culture' (not goady - there's no such culture).

So, you think the man should have sat in the rain on a corner because a woman may have felt threatened (for no good reason) and for believing that he was a nasty attacker waiting to pounce?

Yes, I genuinely think you're being a complete arsehole for saying this. Look at the way you've modified the situation, from one post to the next, until the man is actually the victim (sitting 'in the rain on a corner'). Look at the way you've undermined the woman's concern, inserting that it's 'for no good reason' (how could you possibly know?).

Why do you think women fear violence from men?

Is it a huge misunderstanding, an act of our own aggression (poor men, perpetually scapegoated), a deliberate hysterical misrepresentation?

In a situation which initially seems to follow the pattern of many sexual assaults perpetrated by strangers, how high does the actual likelihood of assault have to be before a) the woman can be impolite or unhelpful (eg refusing to give assistance), or b) the man should briefly modify his behaviour (eg stop walking too close)? And how are we supposed to judge the likelihood of assault in each particular situation, if all we can register at that moment is its similarity to situations which ended badly? Should we always assume zero risk at all times, rather than compromise women's politeness and men's feelings?

Bertrand - I don't know. I don't think a man should be obliged to do anything differently because a woman may want him to, assuming he is being perfectly within the law and moral ideals of society and walking (coincidentally) the same way home, is doing nothing wrong. He shouldn't even have to think about if he should stop and stand in the rain out of moral obligation.

I said nothing about revealing clothes. Well, the little I said was that this is never an excuse or should be used as a reason for attracting assault.

With regard to getting drunk, that is stupid and yes you put yourself in harms way regardless of sex. That isn't victim-blaming, it's common sense.

I've tried to answer all of your questions but you've ignored mine. Why do you think women are abandoning the label 'feminism' yet more and more people (both sexes) believe in equality of the sexes.

Not you Bertrand, bu others, have missed my point that I am against modern feminism but absolutely for male / female equality.

willyoujustbequiet

Are you aware of something called Godwin's law? You lost all credibility (and if it were up to me, all right to be an adult) by comparing sticking up for men's rights to being a Nazi.

As a female Jew, I find your attitude disgusting and ignorant and testament to why women (and men) are abandoning feminism despite agreeing with what it used to stand for.

I hope that at some point in the future, you get an education and grow up.

OfficerVanHalen

"Are people abandoning feminism"

Yes

don't call us feminists

why millenials don't want to be feminists

same in America

equality not feminism

A load of women in pussy hats doesn't mean feminism is toxic. Remember, the difference between a cure and a poison is down to dosage. Luckily, the ones that were out in January tended to be the ones who would protest the opening of a Starbucks if told to by SJWs (yep, I can use acronyms too!).

What does Cheryl Cole have to do with anything? A very sexy racist who looks good in short shorts?

sorry - didn;t mean to NC there

Ludicrous innit

why is it then that having two children has left me lucky to earn a bit more than minimum wage!

I made a bad choice yes (the children's father) but if society were structured differently then the sacrifices of parenthood might have been equal. Not just mine.

why is it then that having two children has left me lucky to earn a bit more than minimum wage!

Because instead of getting promotions or an education or training on the job, you popped out two children. Is this ludicrous?

RE the Emily Houser case - STFU i honestly don't know which planet you live on but it's not the same as mine.

In the space of one thread you said you thought it must be rare to see someone disbelieving a rape and sexual assault victim, then did the exact same thing claiming things "don't add up" in a case of a 24 year old pursuing a 16yo girl.

I can tell you that I've been the Emily Houser in a job and I've seen how fast people who watched him follow you around the workplace, insult you for talking to other guys (inc your boyfriend) and listen to you complain about his behaviour desert you when you make that complaint formal. How easy it is to become the slut who led people on and just wants to cause trouble. Even when the complaint is upheld.

So don't come with that "things don't add up" bullshit

Officervanhalen

Yes that is interesting. All the explanation needed really