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AIBU?

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Original poster

'There is no need for feminism in first world countries because females are no longer oppressed...'

458 replies

TinyRick · 07/04/2017 11:52

And apparently we have 'more rights than men now'.

One example of many - www.debate.org/opinions/women-are-not-oppressed-in-first-world-countries

I was going to post this on the Feminism boards but I have heard this from females too so thought I would post here to see views from those who do think this and agree with it.

I'm on a social media site and this comes up quite often. Yes, quite presumably from young males but I have also read about the 'Red Pill' and the 'MGTOW' movements which are mostly populated by the older males.

Aibu to think that Feminism in the first world is still needed and as relevant as ever? And amongst our 'luxuries' we are still the oppressed class?

OP posts:
Platimum · 07/04/2017 17:45

It's an inequality. My x also has two children obviously.

I was unable to FORCE him to meet 50% of the responsibility and sacrifice of parenthood so therefore parenthood (of two) has financially left me in a very........ humble position. I love my children and they're worth it. But he gets to love them too. He also got to have a great job.

I know I made a bad choice. Bad choices. But at the same time, I'm human and all I did was have two children with an entitled sexist man. I and millions like me all over the world are left broke by parenthood.

For every father who is really upset he can't see more of his children, there are a couple of hundred mothers wondering how they can escape the low wage hell they're stuck in.

Willyoujustbequiet · 07/04/2017 17:47

Platinum

Well said

OfficerVanHalen · 07/04/2017 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mermaidinthesea123 · 07/04/2017 17:56

Really? In my opinion every woman is still oppressed by her partner/husband and is expected to exchange sex for commodities. Which is why I am steadfastly single after two failed marriages.
Legal prostitution I call it.

cathf · 07/04/2017 18:39

The thing is, a lot of the situations described on here exist because some women want them.
Some others (such as most of the pps on this thread) don't, but some do, and women adament to fight for equality would do well to consider this and cut the dogma.
To take some of the oft-quoted examples on this post:
Equal pay: can anyone point me to a real example of a woman paid less for doing the exact same job as a man? A woman with the same experience and the same length of service? For the same hours? I will get lots of examples of women doing jobs they deem to be of equal value to men, or women who are paid less than a man who has not had a career break, or fewer hours, but I bet no-one can give me a like-for-like pay inequality.
Fewer women in senior positions: I used to work in the media, and at middle-management level, women outnumbered men. By the time we got to board level, most women were just not interested. They WANTED to have a lower-pressure job so they had more time at home.
Men don't want residency of children: ,But women DO. It's no use moaning about men not wanting the children and portraying women yet again as helpless victims when the reality is most women would fight their ex all the way to get the children after a break-up.
Housework: A lot of women actively choose to stay at home with the children. They are not oppressed, they want to do it.
Constant portayal of women as passive victims does us no favours at all.

OfficerVanHalen · 07/04/2017 18:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Willyoujustbequiet · 07/04/2017 19:02

Cath

I am a living example of the pay gap. Myself and a colleague were trainees in local government. White collar professional posts. Think law/surveying.

I qualified ahead of him. Found out that his salary as a trainee was higher than mine despite me then being fully qualified and him not. Same dept. My role had greater autonomy and duties/responsibilities.

No explanation given for discrepancy. I fought for 18 months then launched a grievance. I got it but not backdated.

I found out by chance. I wonder how many other women are being discriminated at work and simply don't know.

cathf · 07/04/2017 19:04

Will, how long ago was this?

jellyfrizz · 07/04/2017 19:04

The battle will be far closer to being "won" when you see a sitcom in which a woman battles with "flooding" and its not shocking, but actually funny.

Yes, men's bodily emissions are hilarious burps, farts, spunk. Whereas women are supposed to be ashamed of anything that escapes their body (children excepted!).

jellyfrizz · 07/04/2017 19:07

Because instead of getting promotions or an education or training on the job, you popped out two children. Is this ludicrous?

This is a choice men don't have to take. The women do it for them. Children are actually pretty important to the future of the human race.

Willyoujustbequiet · 07/04/2017 19:16

Cath 2011 when I won. I know its a few years but it was a large local authority. If local government can't get it's house in order .....

OfficerVanHalen · 07/04/2017 19:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuentinSummers · 07/04/2017 19:36

cath as it's against the law to pay unfairly, when women bring cases they often get a pay out on condition they keep quiet before it goes to tribunal. It definitely does still happen, often unintentionally because employers aren't really paying attention.

When the pay transparency reporting comes in we will have a lot better evidence about the pay gap.

PoochSmooch · 07/04/2017 19:44

Good detecting skills officervanhalen!

I am not aware of any woman who has previously been a feminist suddenly abandon it, so I'm not sure where the concept of millions of women seeing the light and running screaming back to the kitchen to get busy making sammichs has come from...though while you're in there, STFU, I'll take a cheese n pickle Grin

Atenco · 07/04/2017 20:34

Because instead of getting promotions or an education or training on the job, you popped out two children. Is this ludicrous?

This is actually a disgusting thing to say. Unfortunately children's rights are wrapped up with women's rights and when the mother who is left holding the baby is not able to earn a decent wage (and pay the childminder or whatever), the children suffer.

Lweji · 07/04/2017 20:41

To those putting down women for popping out two children, presumably they don't want a renewed population.
Someone has to do it, dear, and they should be protected and rewarded.

cathf · 07/04/2017 21:11

Lweji, but they are protected and rewarded through maternity rights. They are entitled to return to work in an equal role and are paid throughout, albeit at a lower rate to reflect the fact that they are not actually working.
What more protection and reward do you think women should get exactly?

BrainSaysNo · 07/04/2017 21:12

STFU
My husband was in a similar position walking down an alley way in the dark when he nearly caught up with a woman walking in front of him, it was raining and dark so he was worried about scaring her, he put down his hoody, at this point she noticed him and jumped, he called me (he actually called before reaching her, but I just missed the call) and was chatting in a way which made it obvious it was to a partner, he turned down side alley and walked the longer way home, so he did not followed her.
I felt sad.
Sad for the woman, that the situation is something that even may cause anxiety.
Then I felt proud, that my husband had the capacity to understand anothers possible feelings, although not something he had faced himself, that he also put himself out to elevate as much as possible any negative worries another may have.

Also is the thread you are talking about the one where the partner read messages between her partner and his friends, that were laughing about a woman they/or he (I don't remember exactly), had become anxious being followed and he had then deliberately intimidated further, and thought it was hilarious, or another thread.

cathf · 07/04/2017 21:13

Willyoujust, I assume 2011 was the end of your claim, so it actually happened a couple of years before that?
I am talking about equal pay today, not historically.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 07/04/2017 21:18

cath

There is a poster on the feminism board who is currently going through a tribunal regarding lower pay

Cant remember the name but she only posted in the last few days so she will probably catch up with this thread later

user1471545174 · 07/04/2017 21:18

Anti-feminist women are tragic.

Self-hatred has never been a good look.

jellyfrizz · 07/04/2017 21:27

they are protected and rewarded through maternity rights. They are entitled to return to work in an equal role and are paid throughout, albeit at a lower rate to reflect the fact that they are not actually working.

BUT

It's ok that women are paid less because they 'choose' to have children.

Because instead of getting promotions or an education or training on the job, you popped out two children. Is this ludicrous?

April229 · 07/04/2017 21:59

I don't think the route to equality is to compare ourselves with the least equal, we should work together to achieve equal rights for woman all over the world, and not stop in some geographical locations because 'it's better than it was' or 'not as bad as it is in Syrian' for example, because that's not equality is it?

Not sure it's feminism anymore, it's just equal rights for everyone, no one should disagree with that.

1 plus woman per week dying from domestic violence
Pay gap
Low jail terms for men to woman violence ( recent example... if a man trapped his male boss in the office, beat him with a cricket bat and tried to force him to drink bleach I bet the prison term would be years, not 18 months AFTER an appeal. Cricket deal or no)
Low prosecution for rape
Low representation of woman on boards and other high paid job, vast representation in low paid call centre cleaning work
More woman in poverty than men
Maternity discrimination
Slut shaming
Revenge porn

All in the UK.

You should feel very greatful if you have not been exposed to something in the western world that has made you feel inequal as a woman, it's not the experience for others.

Coverup890 · 07/04/2017 22:10

I never used to think about it even though i was routinely made to feel wrong for not adhering to steriotypes and being talked down to. Since having children though my thoughts have changed i worry for my children's futures. When my dd whos 12 told me there is nothing good about being female the other day it really hit home.

Lweji · 07/04/2017 22:13

They are entitled to return to work in an equal role and are paid throughout, albeit at a lower rate to reflect the fact that they are not actually working.
What more protection and reward do you think women should get exactly?

My post didn't mean that I wanted more protection and reward, it was in relation to a comment about blaming women for having children.

In any case, I think you've just answered your own question with the sentence before it. :)

Mothers return to work in the same role, thus missing out on promotions that other women and, particularly, men have had a chance at.
And they receive less money because they are not "working". Well, they are caring for the next generation that will pay for and work for the current generation in their old age.