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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'There is no need for feminism in first world countries because females are no longer oppressed...'

458 replies

TinyRick · 07/04/2017 11:52

And apparently we have 'more rights than men now'.

One example of many - www.debate.org/opinions/women-are-not-oppressed-in-first-world-countries

I was going to post this on the Feminism boards but I have heard this from females too so thought I would post here to see views from those who do think this and agree with it.

I'm on a social media site and this comes up quite often. Yes, quite presumably from young males but I have also read about the 'Red Pill' and the 'MGTOW' movements which are mostly populated by the older males.

Aibu to think that Feminism in the first world is still needed and as relevant as ever? And amongst our 'luxuries' we are still the oppressed class?

OP posts:
ThymeLord · 07/04/2017 12:57

Let's put it in bold; TWO. Two women every week are killed by their partner.

In terms of my life experience and age, we seem to be going backwards at the moment when it comes to womens rights.

Original poster
TinyRick · 07/04/2017 12:58

witsender Thank you for clarifying :) Please add to the discussion if and when you feel you can.

OP posts:
lazytuesday · 07/04/2017 12:59

oh the high heels though!................ so, its horrendous that muslim women are forced to wear headscarves or burkinis and we should certainly ban those in this country.... but women being forced to wear high heels or risk losing their job....... thats different, thats totally fine......

Yes those views are about caring about women. They arent just racist and misogynist.

Original poster
TinyRick · 07/04/2017 13:00

And that 'male homicide' statistic...who are these males getting killed by?

OP posts:
BeyondUser24601 · 07/04/2017 13:02

The suicide thing drives me crazy
Females attempt suicide at a higher rate than males, males are just more likely to succeed.

How do you think bringing up the high rate of male suicide makes a failed female suicider feel?

Original poster
TinyRick · 07/04/2017 13:06

Exactly Beyonduser and if they would have a cursory search on the internet they would find that China actually has more female suicides than males, for example.

OP posts:
ThymeLord · 07/04/2017 13:06

How do you think bringing up the high rate of male suicide makes a failed female suicider feel

Honestly, in my opinion it's meant to make us be quiet. To get back in our boxes and realise that actually the poor blokes have it far worse than us. It's meant to silence women discussing women's issues because actually, don't we know, we should be discussing mens issues instead.

OP posts:
BeyondUser24601 · 07/04/2017 13:08

Yes and yes

BigChocFrenzy · 07/04/2017 13:10

It's rather like claiming there is no poverty in the UK, because noone is remotely as poor as the poor in Africa and other developing countries.

We do expect first world standards of human rights and standards of living.

Of course we should also campaign to help women suffering worse oppression in developing countries.

This would e.g. require our governments (Tory & Labour alike) to stop prioritising arms sales over human rights, e.g. the current govt touting for business with the very nasty Saudi Arabian theocracy.
It would combine neatly with a new policy not to be so friendly to a regime that is responsible for much of the terrorism against the West.

Lottapianos · 07/04/2017 13:14

Anyone who suggests that 'females' (female what? Hmm) have it all hunky dory now need to be told to get their head out of their ass. No further explanation or pleading needed. They're displaying such ignorance and arrogance that I would find it hard to engage further. I know some of you are made of sterner stuff than I am

The excuses - sweet sanity, the excuses..... it was just a bit of fun, just a joke, she knew what she was doing, she looked older than she was, what was the poor man supposed to do, there was no harm done...... Some people tie themselves in knots trying to put the blame anywhere but on the perpetrator. People who come out with this sort of crap need to be asking themselves how they got so messed up in the head Angry

lazytuesday · 07/04/2017 13:14

the male suicide thing is in part because of misogyny..... women are more likely to talk to someone about how they feel before they actually try and kill themselves. But men wont do that because its something women do essentially. They are brought up not to talk about their feelings or to be able to articulate themselves emotionally (of course thats a generalisation, some are very good at it).

What could help with that? well probably feminism. Making it okay for men to express traditionally feminine attributes if they felt like it.

But no, apparently what will help is mens rights activism trying to make it okay to be even more traditionally masculine....... yeah. Thatl work.

MaidOfStars · 07/04/2017 13:16

The suicide thing drives me crazy. Females attempt suicide at a higher rate than males, males are just more likely to succeed
Was popping back to comment the same as ^

Hanging aside (most common in both sexes), males use more violent and high mortality methods like firearms. Females tend to overdose, which has a higher failure rate. This is very much a gender gap based on stereotyped gender behaviour - males fail to access mental health services and they act impulsively with high risk.

Feminism, which seeks to break down the societal requirement for this "masculine" behaviour in males, is the thing that can help these men.

OfficerVanHalen · 07/04/2017 13:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Meekonsandwich · 07/04/2017 13:22

But in America, one of the richest most developed countries in the world you cant get an abortion in lots of states?

And there's never been a female president?
Whereas in countries (i think) like Iran, Egypt, they've had female leaders? And before the 70s, women were not required to cover themselves (I think choice is great) and they could drive, I read this somewhere? They were really moving towards equality. So it's needed everywhere really

foodtime · 07/04/2017 13:26

You wouldn't get the same people saying this about the black rights movement or the LGBT movement, or anything else really would you?

This is where you start to lose people. Shouting nonsense as though it is fact. Feminism is very much needed and we have a long way to go. but talking shit doesn't help.

WankingMonkey · 07/04/2017 13:44

I know a fair few men who whine on about how well women have it. How women always get the house, the kids, maintenance etc. Ignoring that men generally do not want full custody and if they did..the figures would be different...if the man got full custody it would be the man who 'got the house' etc in divorces as its more for where the kids live isn't it? I don't know that much about divorces mind but I would think/hope that how it works.

Feminism is much more needed in other countries, but its also needed here.

Honestly..if we went down the route of 'others have it worse' we could never complain about, or fight for anything. Close down the foodbanks, people in Africa are starving. Kick that homeless guy sleeping under a bridge, other homeless people have to sleep with no roof at all and are fully beaten...etc etc.

lazytuesday · 07/04/2017 13:53

foodtime? what do you mean?

I meant that i hear educated left wing people i know, who would never criticise the black rights movement or the LGBT movement, say that there is no need for feminism.
I didnt mean that no one ever criticises these things.
Its just that youd expect people who criticise these things to also perhaps criticise feminism.

foodtime · 07/04/2017 14:07

lazytuesday

But that's just not true.

Don't try and bring up someone's else's struggle to try and prove a point.
This is something men have been doing to women for years. It's not a competition.

comingintomyown · 07/04/2017 14:09

Yes it's needed but I think as a pp said true equality is centuries away. Took me getting divorced and getting old to realise how insidious inequality is and how yes ok wolf whistling builders may be on the wane but that's about it in terms of progress since I was a kid in the seventies

STFU · 07/04/2017 14:11

I agree that it is no longer needed.

I have heard this from females too

What does this have to do with anything.

There is no such thing as the pay gap. Every economic major publication agrees with this as do economists. Obviously, that's defining the pay gap as the same money for the same job. If you want to give it a different definition then of course, you can say anything you wish.

Women have over taken men in many areas of society. We don't need feminism which is now a nasty, man-hating in-group: we need egalitarianism.

Feminism is dying out (thank god) and those clinging on, as is always the case, are fanatics.

MN has been a huge eye-opener for me

This makes me fearful. It's a self-selecting demographic and a pretty minor one at that. Whenever anyone who talks to me and is surprised by my anti-feminist approach suggests I read 'the right books' I really do want to scream and walk away. You aren't having your eyes opened, you're reading extreme opinions.

As an old-ish (past middle-age) woman, I have left my feminism behind as the battles I fought for in my younger years have been won. There are of course cases of misogyny but there is no patriarchy. In the same way that a black person may be killed because they're black, but I don't think we live in a racist society and need something like BLM (or an intelligent version of it).

Just before the accusations come, I'm not a troll. I'm a woman. I'm an MRA (advocate, not activist - I'm too lazy to be an activist) when necessary because society is not fair but it is not tilted in favour of men a lot of the time.

I want a fair society where people are celebrated for their unique achievements. That doesn't, to my mind, mean keeping a job open for someone who has three babies in a row taking the maximum maternity leave before resigning or assuming that a woman should 'keep the house' or that a man on the school run is 'so good' or that 50/50 in STEM is achievable and for the best interests of everyone. Therefore, for me, feminism has done it's job and we now need to look at a fairer society for everyone in it.

Lweji · 07/04/2017 14:13

We don't need feminism which is now a nasty, man-hating in-group: we need egalitarianism.

Feminism is for equality. :)

How is current feminism men-hating?

BertrandRussell · 07/04/2017 14:24

STFU- what particular men's rights do you advocate for?

antimatter · 07/04/2017 14:27

but you are talking about all of those things OP, like linking article about female suicide in China

I am curious to find out what have you done to help that cause if you care about it so much?

DeleteOrDecay · 07/04/2017 14:38

Of course feminism is still needed the world over, in some places it is needed to a 'lesser' extent (for want of a better term) than others but you are deluded if you truly believe sexism is a thing of the past. A quick look at cases such as Ched Evans and Adam Johnson, and the reaction their victims received from the general public is indicative of that.

Regarding heels, why on earth should any woman be made to wear footwear for work which is: a) uncomfortable for many b) bad for their health and c) impractical in many cases? It's bonkers that in 2017 this is even a thing and no I will not 'stop whining' about it because it's still an issue that needs to be tackled and it's a slippery slope back to square one if these 'minor' issues go ignored.