To think his mother is toxic and want to do something about it? (longish story)

[SuziePink]

Apologies for the length of this.

DP (37, I'm 29) has AS and ADHD and lives with his DM and stepdad. Together for 2 years, found out I was pregnant in early Jan. When I told DP we were a bit shocked but after some discussions I told him I was not willing/able/whatever to have an abortion because I knew I would regret it. He seemed to accept this but was having problems so I said he needed to talk to his DM and stepdad. Next time I saw him he said he'd told them and they thought I should have an abortion... so much for being supportive.

Less than a week later his DM has phoned my parents, who she'd never met let alone had their phone number, and arranged to meet them to discuss 'concerns'. Then DP sends me message saying he is 'unable to function in a relationship' which is news to me after being in a happy one for 2 years. My parents then receive a letter from his DM cancelling the meeting and explaining that I should have an abortion because my child will have 'severe autism' despite there being absolutely no scientific backing for this as well as the fact my DP does not have severe autism. My parents still want to meet. During the meeting she is in full theatrics saying how dependent my DP is on her (she's made him that way, nothing to do with AS or ADHD), how he's like a 'little boy', that sometimes she wishes he'd 'never been born', how it's cruel to bring a disabled child into the world as well as saying if I have the child it will 'kill [her]' etc etc... Does not listen to what my parents or I have to say at all.

A couple of weeks later he agrees to meet me then sends me an email at the last minute cancelling. I go round there anyway. His DM tells me I bully and manipulate DP, physically tries to push me away from him despite knowing I'm pregnant and then calls 999. However, police are very sympathetic to me and tell DP basically to stop ignoring me and be a man. Me and DP have a good conversation and agree to meet a couple of days later. However, by that time DM has got to him and convinced him that there's no point speaking to me and he must have a friend present because I'm such a bully. Unsurprisingly, we get nowhere.

Since then (about 6 weeks ago) I've barely heard from him and not seen him. His DM gives him money so he doesn't need to work, makes appointments with his GP etc, and basically controls his life as well as deciding for him that he cannot cope in a relationship and that he's 'incapable' of being a father to our child. I think he'd make a lovely father whether we're in a relationship or not. I've tried to ask members of family who I know for help but she's got wind of this and told him to tell me to stop (I can tell when he's merely repeating what she's said). All I want, and I've told him and his DM and stepdad, is a father for my child and for them to know their family. I have not asked for money or anything else from them.

I've since read Susan Forward's Toxic parents and am convinced she's a controlling toxic parent. AIBU to think this and AIBU to want to do something about it before she completely ruins his life by severing ties with me and what will probably be his only child? Oh yeah... she's an accredited counsellor.

I should probably mention I've been signed off from work with stress from mid-Feb to end of this month and have been seeing a counsellor myself.

What on earth do you see in this man? Yes, his mother is toxic, but that's his problem and his battle to fight, not yours.

What on earth do you see in this man?
Lots, actually. He's lovely and really kind but his mother is a nutcase and he can't see it.

Thing is though OP, this isn't just a relationship you want to fix any more. if as you say, he's so influenced by his mother that he's unable to lead a normal life, then the reality is that he's not going to sufficiently come to his senses in the next four months in order to be able to be a father to this child.

This isn't just about a relationship. There is a child involved now. And it's clear that if he can't even hold a relationship together or choose to hold a relationship together, then he doesn't have what it takes to be a parent.

He's an adult with the thought processes of a child. Sorry but no amount of explanations of diagnosis and coercion and control changes that. Even if his mother has treated him like a child to the extent he acts like one, the fact here is that he does act like a child and therefore is not capable of making his own decisions, holding down a relationship, and most importantly, being able to parent a child.

No person is that influenced by another that they cannot think for themselves. And if they are, then they need a lot of professional help to get them through it. You can't save him, and the reality here is that you need to save your child from him.

At the end of the day op she is still his mother. She is going to be a part of his life for as long as he wants her to be. You physically can't change that without being very manipulative.

Thank God for wannabes post. It's her post you need to really listen to.

Hi Suzie. Not what you want to hear I know but think you need to stop chasing him. Just leave him be and if he does really want to be with you he will let you know. I have ADHD and both my children have developmental disorders and ADHD. Special needs parenting on your own is tough and difficult to prepare for - last thing you need is complications from this toxic relationship/parent.

@WannaBe and @Hercules12 I don't think you (like a lot of people on here) have understood the systematic abuse DP has suffered.

@Unpropergrammer yes I know I can't force him away from her but it's very frustrating knowing that he is unhappy and that I can't do anything about it, hence the thread.

@Tw1nklestartoes I'm not chasing him. It's not as simple as him letting me know if he wants to be with me.

Yes it is frustrating. But he's an adult who by your estimation has capacity.

All you can do is walk away. I know that's hard for you but there is nothing more you can achieve.

OP, it is really noticeable that you dismiss anyone who disagrees with your take on the situation. I really think you should perhaps ask yourself if you are dismissing a lot of other things that don't agree with your perception of this dynamic.

You sound to me like any other woman who cannot understand why her ex partner no longer wants to be with her and who is looking for something or someone else to blame because obvs IF he just REALISED and if you could just SHOW him what a great thing you have/are offering him he would be happy ever after. And obvs he CAN'T realise this because his bad Mum is poisoning his mind.

Either he is capable of having a relationship and of walking away from that relationship when it no longer suits him, or - he isn't capable. Either way the result is the same.

@Haffiana I'm getting really tired of repeating myself. I'm not dismissing people, I am perfectly entitled to my opinion particularly as the person who knows the most about the situation. What I don't need is people like yourself judging me and implying that either I am to blame for the situation or I am somehow stupid and blind to what's really going on. I have had other relationships that have ended badly but nothing tops this and certainly I have never felt before that my ex is in two minds about the whole thing. She is abusing him, that's not just my opinion but also of other people who know them and know the situation well. I'm not some crazed stalker ex and I certainly don't need to be patronised.

Unfortunately, OP, I don't think there is any other solution to your situation. Things are as they are. There is no magic solution to this.

@Atenco fully aware that magic does not exist

OP, but you said earlier in the thread that you had no idea his mother was like this, that she had been nice to you and you thought she was nice as was he.

Now it's all suddenly gone from that to she's abused him so badly that he's unable to think for himself overnight.

It's very likely that he's had a messed up childhood and that his mother is a toxic woman. However it's also a fact that he's a grown man. Unless he is so severely disabled that he has the capacity of a child he is capable of making decisions for himself. He may choose not to, He may find it difficult, but he can do it. Unless the past two years have all been this messed up, which by your own admission has not been the case, it seems far more likely that he is hiding behind his mother because a baby and a relationship isn't what he wants but because he's had such a messed up life, he can't express that. so it's a combination of the two factors. Yes his mother is a toxic woman, but he also doesn't want to be with you or have your baby but he's using his mother as the reason rather than articulating his own reasons.

You say you know him, but clearly you don't if he's gone from a loving articulate man to one who apparently has lost the ability to communicate in any way overnight.

@Haffiana reading back through all your posts you have been supremely unhelpful. If I would have read your first post repeatedly stating I had been 'dumped' a few weeks ago when I was feeling very anxious and depressed as opposed to only anxious and depressed I probably would have cried my eyes out. You seem intent on patronising me and ignoring everything I say. A bit like the mother the post is about. Any further personal attacks and I will report the posts. I'm not putting up with online bullying as well as in real life.

I don't see anywhere where you have been personally attacked. It's very clear that you don't want to believe that this man doesn't want to be with you despite the fact he has cut contact and wants nothing to do with you or your baby.

He is a grown man OP. No adult has that much control over another adult that they become incapable of making their own decisions overnight. It just doesn't happen.

Fair enough keep believing that this man is influenced only by his mother and that he is an automaton incapable of living his own life. But he was capable of having a relationship with you and getting you pregnant until only a few weeks ago and by magic that has changed with the flick of a switch.

But that belief then means that you are wanting to give your child to this man who is not capable of parenting it (by your own admission as his mother lives his life for him and he's not capable of standing up to her in any way,) so his mother will be parenting your child if you want him to have anything to do with it.

Wake up to the reality and walk away from this toxic man and his toccic mother. It's over. He doesn't want you and he doesn't want this baby. If he did he would be with you now but he isn't.

She's not personally attacking you, she's giving you an opinion that you obviously don't want. Not sure what the point of posting in AIBU/sharing with the internet was if you're not willing to accept other people will have different opinions.

Cross post, WannaBe put it a lot better than I could.

So now I am personally attacking you?!

I think things are becoming clearer now OP.

I am willing to accept that people have differing opinions, what I will not put up with is being patronised.

I have never said anything about wanting to get back into a relationship with DP, that has been many posters' assumption for reasons that I don't understand and words have been put into my mouth.

Just to make it clear, I knew his mother was odd and domineering but I completely underestimated how controlling and plain crazy she is. Her actions are not those of a rational person. I am not alone in this opinion. People who know her personally think the same. I never said I thought she was a 'normal' person.

If I say a post has upset me then it has, that is not something up for discussion.

I have never said anything about wanting to get back into a relationship with DP, that has been many posters' assumption for reasons that I don't understand and words have been put into my mouth.

You said he'd agreed to go with you to a relationship counsellor ... therefore making a presumption that it was your suggestion. What would be the point of that if you didn't want to be with him?

To be in good terms for our child. Relationship counselling does not have to be between two people in a relationship, it can be used in divorces or in other situations, especially where children are involved, to come to an amicable agreement without getting solicitors making things more complicated. My own counsellor and a health professional he asked agreed it's a good idea. It's unfortunate it's called "relationship counselling" to be honest because it doesn't really cover all that it does.

He said he thought it was a good idea, however because his mother is against it it's not yet happened which is a shame because I think it would help us communicate with the presence of an unbiased professional, not his mother as has happened previously.

OP what I've got from reading your posts is that this man has attempted to live independently of his mum and failed at it. That's why at the age of 37 he's still living at home and his mum is in complete control of his life.
It's a bit weird that you are having a relationship with a man that is capable of sex and getting you pregnant, but the minute you ask something remotely adult of him, he hides behind mum and stays there. Why do you want to even be in a relationship with him? Walk away with your pride and let them live their toxic lives together. For your own sanity and that of your baby. Why on earth would you want a child to be involved in this madness?

I don't want to be in a relationship with him with things as they are. I'm actually scared of his mother assaulting me and reporting me to SS because she wants revenge, I'm well aware that is no environment to have a relationship with someone however much I love and miss him.

I believe he would make a good dad if he were given the chance. I think it's wrong that it's our son who has to suffer the consequences of his toxic mother and I think he will regret this if he doesn't already.

The reality here though is that a lot of people would take advice from others as to what to do in certain situations. That doesn't necessarily mean that they heed that advice, but we all ask advice from those we trust. If his mother has told him that it's not a good idea for him to have relationship counselling, then it's clear that he's asking her advice about your relationship, not just being dictated to over it.

And PP is right. The instant he was faced with a real grownup situation i.e. That his girlfriend became pregnant it's suddenly all his mother's doing that he's backed off.

Remember though that this isn't just about the here and now, this is about the rest of your lives. If you allow this man anywhere near your life at this point then there's a good chance that this drama will run and run in cycles. Things might go well for a while until he hits a blip then he will revert back to mummy's boy, and if your child is involved in this life then his father will become the negative role model of how relationships are supposed to work.

Think very hard about whether you want this man on the birth certificate. It doesn't mean you have to deny his identity, but having him on the birth certificate means he will have parental responsibility for your baby, and your child throughout its life. That means he will have more of a say in where he goes to school, how he is brought up, and ultimately how much of a relationship it has with his mother.

if he steps up as a decent parent somewhere down the line he can always apply for PR then. But given he's not likely to agree to attend the registration with you anyway you should just assume that you will be bringing this baby up as a single parent.

And TBH, once this baby is born I suspect that your maternal feelings will make you see him in an entirely different light, and your need for him to be a part of your lives will reduce.

I want him to be a part of the child's life, that's all. That's what this is all about really. His parents were never truly together and that had a bad effect on him and he felt he had to seek out father figures.

My parents mentioned the fact that I had wanted to go to relationship counselling with him months ago, as is recommended for people with AS, to his mother and she immediately didn't like the idea that something would be beyond her control. Therefore, whatever he has said to her about it she would have tried her best to put him off and as a trained counsellor herself, God knows how, her opinion, no matter how wrong, would certainly in this case carry some weight. I can almost imagine her saying "but DS, I'm a trained counsellor so I know what I'm talking about" etc.