To think his mother is toxic and want to do something about it? (longish story)

[SuziePink]

Apologies for the length of this.

DP (37, I'm 29) has AS and ADHD and lives with his DM and stepdad. Together for 2 years, found out I was pregnant in early Jan. When I told DP we were a bit shocked but after some discussions I told him I was not willing/able/whatever to have an abortion because I knew I would regret it. He seemed to accept this but was having problems so I said he needed to talk to his DM and stepdad. Next time I saw him he said he'd told them and they thought I should have an abortion... so much for being supportive.

Less than a week later his DM has phoned my parents, who she'd never met let alone had their phone number, and arranged to meet them to discuss 'concerns'. Then DP sends me message saying he is 'unable to function in a relationship' which is news to me after being in a happy one for 2 years. My parents then receive a letter from his DM cancelling the meeting and explaining that I should have an abortion because my child will have 'severe autism' despite there being absolutely no scientific backing for this as well as the fact my DP does not have severe autism. My parents still want to meet. During the meeting she is in full theatrics saying how dependent my DP is on her (she's made him that way, nothing to do with AS or ADHD), how he's like a 'little boy', that sometimes she wishes he'd 'never been born', how it's cruel to bring a disabled child into the world as well as saying if I have the child it will 'kill [her]' etc etc... Does not listen to what my parents or I have to say at all.

A couple of weeks later he agrees to meet me then sends me an email at the last minute cancelling. I go round there anyway. His DM tells me I bully and manipulate DP, physically tries to push me away from him despite knowing I'm pregnant and then calls 999. However, police are very sympathetic to me and tell DP basically to stop ignoring me and be a man. Me and DP have a good conversation and agree to meet a couple of days later. However, by that time DM has got to him and convinced him that there's no point speaking to me and he must have a friend present because I'm such a bully. Unsurprisingly, we get nowhere.

Since then (about 6 weeks ago) I've barely heard from him and not seen him. His DM gives him money so he doesn't need to work, makes appointments with his GP etc, and basically controls his life as well as deciding for him that he cannot cope in a relationship and that he's 'incapable' of being a father to our child. I think he'd make a lovely father whether we're in a relationship or not. I've tried to ask members of family who I know for help but she's got wind of this and told him to tell me to stop (I can tell when he's merely repeating what she's said). All I want, and I've told him and his DM and stepdad, is a father for my child and for them to know their family. I have not asked for money or anything else from them.

I've since read Susan Forward's Toxic parents and am convinced she's a controlling toxic parent. AIBU to think this and AIBU to want to do something about it before she completely ruins his life by severing ties with me and what will probably be his only child? Oh yeah... she's an accredited counsellor.

I should probably mention I've been signed off from work with stress from mid-Feb to end of this month and have been seeing a counsellor myself.

Congratulations on your pregnancy

Suzie,he sounds like he's affected like my sister, though tantrums and behaviour were very bad until a certain age so maybe she's worse off! I have to say that whilst my mother and grandmother both thought that she would never be able to be a mum, I am of the view that with the right support she would make an excellent parent, she would just need a partner who took a little more responsibility that she may not be able to handle. It sounds like if he chooses to be around, which he may when the baby is born, that you will be able to understand his limitations and it may just work well.

My sister wasn't even considering children at the time my mum decided she would never be able, but that's mums for you, they often try to protect in strange ways.

It will be hard, but give him the space, I think when the baby is born, if he is to ever become assertive with his mother, this will be the time that it will happen.

the conflict that's currently ongoing isn't going to make it any easier on him. It will mean that he ends up sneaking around trying to please everyone, his mum should be ashamed of herself for not putting his feelings first and offering support and assistance.

Is she the type who wants to be viewed as martyr mum? ... I may be reflecting here! But I do wonder!

OPshe sounds awful but she will always be his mother. Until she's dead, she'll always bother you. I have nothing more to add but to reiterate that if you put him on the birth certificate, she will be the one pulling the strings because she's pulling his strings. She seems very clever and manipulative enough to get him to come with you to register the birth and then exert control over your child through him. You can tell your DS his father's name and last known address, something about him, say nice things about him etc and hope your boyfriend comes to his senses but you need to keep control of your child out of his her hands.

Suzie

One of the issues seems to be that you and his mother have completely different perceptions of him. You see him as a capable adult with great potential, being held back by his anxiety, lack of confidence and upbringing, and she sees him a very disabled adult incapable of managing his own life. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle, but at the moment he’s adhering to his mother’s perception more than yours.

You think (with very good reason) that she is incredibly controlling and manipulative, but she probably also sees you as manipulative, since he is telling you that you are toxic, or that he’s not functioning in the relationship, and you are choosing to disbelieve he means what he says, (again maybe with good reason.)

You need to let DP choose which one of these versions of himself he’s going to be. If I were you I would write a letter or email outlining why you think he’d be a good father, what you expect, and what you’re not prepared to accept. I would then give him a time frame, and unfortunately if he chooses to ignore you or lets his Mother be further involved, I think you’ll have your answer.

Suzie I've been having a think about your thread. I know you've sought advice from a solicitor and this has probably been covered, but you need to think about guardianship in case anything happens to you. It's something I've had to think about as we don't want DS ending up with ILs should the worst happen.

Sorry to be a prophet of doom

she sounds toxic and emotionally abusive but unless he's classed as a vulnerable adult there doesn't seem to be a lot you can do

From personal experience I can tell you there is very little you can do even if he IS a vulnerable adult. It all centres around if he has capacity, which he obviously does. And someone with capacity IS allowed to make the decision to live in circumstances that the rest of us may find detrimental to his health and well being. Someone with capacity IS allowed to make the decision to be dominated ("brain washed") by another person. Someone with capacity IS free to allow other people to make decisions for them, even though others may believe it is not in their best interests. This may be wrong but sadly the way the law stands now.

To give am little example (I cannot tell the major examples as it would out me) my 18 year old son, a vulnerable adult, with autism and learning disabilities, used to go to a college for young people with special needs. Every day he would go with a person he believed was his friend, withdraw £50 from his bank account and hand over to "his friend". He did it simply because "his friend" asked him to, and this person knew my son will agree with anything asked of him. This person would then give my son £1 to spend in the pound shop (the only shop my son can manage to go into). My son was perfectly happy. When this came to our attention over £500 had been given. We called the police and other agencies but nothing could be done. Even although he was manipulated and his leaning difficulties used against him, he handed over the money willingly (and as CCTV saw with a smile) and as he has legal capacity he was allowed to give his money to whom he wished. That is the most minor example I can give you.

@QuiteLikely5 I tried writing to his father but received no response at all. Either he doesn't want to be involved at all or he's already had enough dealings with DM to want to steer clear. No she doesn't allow him to see me, she's made it very clear to him that she thinks I'm toxic and she wouldn't let him spend time alone with me. I do actually have fantasies about throttling her (obviously would not actually do that but just being honest) and for that and many other reasons I never want to be in the same room with her again.

@OhGood thank you

@Dumbo412 yes I think she definitely wants to be viewed as a martyr who has devoted her life to her 'disabled' son. I think that's part of the reason why she doesn't want him to be independent but also wishes he'd never been born. I totally agree she should be supportive whatever he wants... but she's too self-centred for that.

@missmoz I'm not sure if she actually sees me as manipulative or has decided to create that story to stop him from seeing me... obviously I'm not and I've always known he's not very assertive so I tried very hard to make sure he was actually happy with whatever I was trying to plan. It's not just me who thinks he is capable of living a normal life, his father thinks that and many of his friends and family. Up until recently his stepdad also believed that but he is regularly subjected to DM's poison. It seems more like it's only her who believes he is like 'a little boy' rather than the general consensus.

@ohfourfoxache I have been thinking about what would happen if I were ill or died but it's not something I discussed with the solicitor. A close friend of mine is getting married soon and I've been thinking about asking her and her fiancé if they would be happy to be guardians in case something happens to me and my parents are unable to/not around. I haven't really got further than that at the moment but yes I'm keen to avoid her having anything to do with the child whether I'm here or not!

@bigmac4me that's awful. I think emotional abuse is not seen the same way as physical or sexual abuse even though it is just as damaging and so it's not seen as an issue if someone is being brainwashed or persuaded to do things they don't want to do.

This sounds very difficult, but personally I get the feeling that it isn't going to be helpful focusing on the mother here.

The man is the one who is about to become a father, and he is the one who owes you effective communication and is failing to give it. He's old enough and independent enough to have been in a meaningful relationship with you for a couple of years after all. Perhaps he is influenced by his mother (who does sound horrid), but unless you think that he is a vulnerable adult who needs to be rescued from an abusive situation, I don't think it's worth spending too much time worrying about precisely why he's not stepping up to the mark.

I think your energies would be better focused figuring out a plan for what you're going to do now it's become that he is not stepping up. I would focus on preparing to be a single parent, while leaving the door open for him to engage with his child in a safe and controlled way, and finding out your legal rights for the future.

Congratulations on your pregnancy and good luck.

Susie, if you put his name on the birth cert your child will automatically go to him or the person he chooses if you die.

He sounds more like your pet project than anything else to me.

37 lives at home, no job, no income and can't stand up to his mother. You chose to have a baby with this man. What did you think would happen because I can't see that it was ever going to end well? Less to do with his mother than with him.
You read a book and now know what's going on? Focus your energy on the father of your child rather than obsessing over his mother. He's the one that needs to step up and if he is not capable there is not much you can do about it. I do not believe for a second that the signs were not already there. A baby was never going to 'fix' him, or the situation.
Let it go OP. You can't force him to step up and it really does sound like he was never going to be capable. Honestly, it sounds like you want to take over his mothers role.
Concentrate on your baby and on you. I wish you all the best

@SpareASquare my "pet project" etc? Oh do fuck off. If you're going to comment at least RTFT. I'm fed up with being patronised by people on here.

@Atenco that's a good point, I hadn't thought about that. After my friend and her husband get married and come back from honeymoon I'll have a chat with them and see what they think about essentially being guardians. They're the most sensible friends I have.

Um, OK

I did actually RTFT and perhaps I shouldn't have called him your 'pet project'.
Not sure what other part of my post you feel is untrue?

I didn't choose to have a baby with him. There was a contraceptive failure and I was unable to go through with an abortion.

I have known him and his mother for a long time, read several books on the topic of controlling and/or toxic parents each of which has described her exactly.

It could have ended well, there's no way you can say it would have ended badly whatever.

I'm not obsessing over his mother. This is my life and I'm entitled to think about it as much as I want.

I never wanted to control him or "take over" his mother's role.

Need I go on?

Like many posters on here you have chosen to ignore the abusive relationship between him and his mother, the amount that was concealed to me, her disgusting behaviour and attitude towards me, and blamed me for pretty much everything. That is why I am pissed off. I am not a stupid little girl who watches too many episodes of Sex in the City and he was never a "pet project". We loved each other and got on very very well. I really believed we had a future together and not only has that been snatched away and I'm now facing being a single mother in addition to mourning the loss of my kind, caring partner but I've had people speak down to me to the point I have felt bullied on this thread.

I feel for you OP, I hope you get some kind of resolution soon xx

@Monkeychopsticks thank you