To think his mother is toxic and want to do something about it? (longish story)

[SuziePink]

Apologies for the length of this.

DP (37, I'm 29) has AS and ADHD and lives with his DM and stepdad. Together for 2 years, found out I was pregnant in early Jan. When I told DP we were a bit shocked but after some discussions I told him I was not willing/able/whatever to have an abortion because I knew I would regret it. He seemed to accept this but was having problems so I said he needed to talk to his DM and stepdad. Next time I saw him he said he'd told them and they thought I should have an abortion... so much for being supportive.

Less than a week later his DM has phoned my parents, who she'd never met let alone had their phone number, and arranged to meet them to discuss 'concerns'. Then DP sends me message saying he is 'unable to function in a relationship' which is news to me after being in a happy one for 2 years. My parents then receive a letter from his DM cancelling the meeting and explaining that I should have an abortion because my child will have 'severe autism' despite there being absolutely no scientific backing for this as well as the fact my DP does not have severe autism. My parents still want to meet. During the meeting she is in full theatrics saying how dependent my DP is on her (she's made him that way, nothing to do with AS or ADHD), how he's like a 'little boy', that sometimes she wishes he'd 'never been born', how it's cruel to bring a disabled child into the world as well as saying if I have the child it will 'kill [her]' etc etc... Does not listen to what my parents or I have to say at all.

A couple of weeks later he agrees to meet me then sends me an email at the last minute cancelling. I go round there anyway. His DM tells me I bully and manipulate DP, physically tries to push me away from him despite knowing I'm pregnant and then calls 999. However, police are very sympathetic to me and tell DP basically to stop ignoring me and be a man. Me and DP have a good conversation and agree to meet a couple of days later. However, by that time DM has got to him and convinced him that there's no point speaking to me and he must have a friend present because I'm such a bully. Unsurprisingly, we get nowhere.

Since then (about 6 weeks ago) I've barely heard from him and not seen him. His DM gives him money so he doesn't need to work, makes appointments with his GP etc, and basically controls his life as well as deciding for him that he cannot cope in a relationship and that he's 'incapable' of being a father to our child. I think he'd make a lovely father whether we're in a relationship or not. I've tried to ask members of family who I know for help but she's got wind of this and told him to tell me to stop (I can tell when he's merely repeating what she's said). All I want, and I've told him and his DM and stepdad, is a father for my child and for them to know their family. I have not asked for money or anything else from them.

I've since read Susan Forward's Toxic parents and am convinced she's a controlling toxic parent. AIBU to think this and AIBU to want to do something about it before she completely ruins his life by severing ties with me and what will probably be his only child? Oh yeah... she's an accredited counsellor.

I should probably mention I've been signed off from work with stress from mid-Feb to end of this month and have been seeing a counsellor myself.

Big Mac - that's awful. People raised in a toxic environment can find it INCREDIBLY difficult to "escape" from those who are controlling/abusing them. I've seen that for myself, and that was NT individuals. Very sad.

bigmac4me

First of all, the way things are going the father is not going to be accompanying the OP to the registry office and so cannot be put on the birth cert.

And secondly, not putting his name on an official document is not the same as refusing to tell a child who there father is.

OP, this man, so far, has not proven that he is father material. The way you say his mother controls him, means that giving him parental responsability before he has proven that he is up to it would just mean that his mother would also get to control your child in so many ways you have no idea. For example, if you were offered a brilliant job overseas, he/she would have to give you permission to take your child out of the country. You are, apparently, allowed to take them for a month on a foreign holiday, but any longer, you would need his/her permission. It's a minefield.

And secondly, not putting his name on an official document is not the same as refusing to tell a child who there father is

No, of course not. I was going a little off topic though and talking of children I have adopted or have fostered who no longer have a relationship with their mother/extended family. When they are old enough to see their birth certificate there is no-one for them to physically ask who can tell them who their father is. It has been a distressing situation for some children. But I apologise for going a little off topic from the OP's particular situation. Sorry Suzie.

OP, this man, so far, has not proven that he is father material

I hope this does not come across as bitchy and nit-picking, but can any of us prove to be father (or mother) material until we actually are? I know of so many expectant parents, of either sex, who you could put into the "non proven" category, until the moment their child was born when everything changed. As you may have seen from my previous posts I adopted four children. I most certainly couldn't prove I was mother material beforehand, and my husband father material - we hoped and took a deep breath (as maybe SS did) but proof...no, that came later.

AndHold that's a bloody good point- ASD or not, surely his mother should be doing everything she can to help/facilitate contact etc. That's what caring, loving parents do - look out for their dc's happiness. She is not doing this by ensuring that he does not have contact with the person he loves. None of this is in his best interests

@ohfourfoxache I really wish there was something else I could do but I'm pretty much out of ideas at this point. I desperately want to get him away from her so he can come to his own conclusion at least but I can't see that happening.

@bigmac4me I agree that some time to himself would be great but I've no idea how to suggest something like that. Pretty sure you're not toxic parents! And I agree about the birth certificate, I don't want my child to not have a father on there. The only issue is DP will have to either come with me or sign the form giving his permission. I'm a bit shocked how that's still the system in this day and age but never mind.

@AndHoldTheBun and @bigmac4me the other thing I would be worried about would be revenge from his mother. I can imagine her calling SS on me saying I mistreat my child or whatever just to get even.

@AndHoldTheBun and @ohfourfoxache I agree. I wouldn't treat my worst enemy how DM has treated DP. Even though I'm not yet a mother I'm pretty sure there's no way I could cause so much intentional damage to my child. She even said to my parents 'oh well they're in love aren't they' before then basically saying that we have nothing to offer each other and the relationship is doomed to failure. When she left after this encounter she said to me 'you're making a big mistake'. Well she's certainly tried her best to make it that way.

If revenge is something you're concerned about then you need to talk to someone asap. Talk to your midwife and tell her everything - make sure it is officially recorded in your notes.

It might also (and please don't take this the wrong way) be worth trying to access counselling- hopefully the antenatal service should be able to get you seen quicker than via a "normal"/non pregnant route (I'm 25/40 and the perinatal MH team are being absolutely fantastic- cannot fault them at all).

You need support for you now

I found that becoming a mum made me detest my ILs more than I could ever have imagined tbh. They treat dh like absolute shit and having a child has just accentuated how fucking nasty people they are. I could tolerate them before DS

@ohfourfoxache I've been having counselling through my employer for the past 5 weeks although that's due to come to an end so I'm thinking about paying for some more privately. It's mostly been helpful although she seems slightly stuck on the fact DP never said he wanted the child but it was only 2 weeks between us finding out and him telling DM (which I so wish I hadn't suggested to him) and then only a further week until he effectively broke up with me so I don't think that was enough time for him to get his head round it, particularly as I feel I'm only just accepting it myself now, 2 months later. I will certainly mention the revenge thing to my midwife, that's a good idea, as I'm worried about it regardless of what I do and especially if I stopped her from seeing my child.

• 2 months after he split up with me and 3 months after I found out

Rather than pay privately it would definitely be worth (if you want to that is) seeing if you can get counselling via the NHS. Mercifully NHS support is getting better all the time and if it's there then you may as well use it.

TBH I wonder if the counsellor is actually focussing on the right thing?

Fwiw in terms of support (please don't judge me for this ) I see a psychotherapist weekly, I'm on the books of the perinatal psychiatric nurse and a specialist psychiatrist- and that's basically for as long as I need it (acute flare up of very longstanding depression). Just wanted to show that the help and support should be there if you need it- this was all arranged via my midwife and consultant obstetrician

@ohfourfoxache definitely not judging you for seeing a therapist every week, it's much better to realise you need the support and do something about it than not and let things potentially get bad. I will ask my GP or midwife (whoever I see first) about getting NHS counselling after this one finishes. I don't really understand either why she asked me that as she's asked that before. She also seemed to have the idea, not unlike some people on here, that if DP wanted me back I'd just go back no questions asked. It seems odd to me that I somehow have to prove to everyone that all I want is for my child to know their father and for DP to have the life he wants, once he's decided what that is of course.

There was a thread on here the other day that got me thinking a lot. It was about a nasty boss who had qualified as a counsellor. Lots of posters said that "rescuers" can be funny things, and they don't necessarily act or say things that are in the best interests of their clients. Sometimes they are not good people. Have to admit that it was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me reading the thread. I'm not saying that your counsellor is bad, just that she's human and subject to the same errors of judgement that we all are.

I was recommended this for a case at work similar to what you describe. You might find it useful. drawingtheidealself.co.uk/drawingtheidealself/Downloads_files/Coventry%20Grid%20Version%202%20-%20Jan%202015.pdf
Also it might be worth suggesting advocacy rather than counselling and seeing what his local adult ASD team have to offer in the way of support. Although obviously as an adult they won't be able to work with him without his consent. Best of luck OP

You need to keep yourself and your baby away from his toxic mother and from him. Your baby needs stability which your DP clearly is too immature to give thanks to his controlling mother.

@ohfourfoxache yes, I know what you mean! It's also difficult to know when a counsellor is saying something because they think it or whether they are trying to get a response from you. I'm thinking about, if the NHS is not helpful or whatever, in going to one of the counsellors I had found for the relationship counselling I wanted to go to with DP as I picked them because they all did relationship and couples counselling as well as having an interest/experience with Asperger's.

@Justalittlebitfurther thank you, the report looks helpful.

You said you got pregnant from a failed contraceptive, then further down the thread you say you hadn't been on the pill for 5 years.

There's more than one type of contraceptive -and all,of them can fail

I may have missed this, though I have RTFT, but who instigated the process leading to his diagnosis, and when, and why was it sought?

I haven't RTFT so not sure if this has been suggested, but could you refer him for advocacy? There's a charity where I live that provides advocacy for people with ASD, and the advocate would spend time with him alone and help him establish and communicate his own feelings on this.

If his mum genuinely thinks you're manipulating him then she'll expect an independent advocate to support her, so she might encourage him to work with them!

Oo thats a tough one op. My sis was diagnosed as borderline autistic at a very young age. My mum dramatised it and she has now no social skills and everything gets blamed on her 'autism'. She was basically a lazy a parent and she pushed very badly for this. My sister will even say its because of my autism thats why i did it.... it has been played on big time. To the point my sis dropped out of school mid way through gcses as my mum kept asking if she was coping.... she was doing fine.and was in the top groups. My toxic mum got inside her head and she then started being home schooled but obviously my mum knows jack. She didnt pass much and is now on a course at college which isnt really a course...

She tried to make me believe there was something wrong with me but i saw the crazy and left home at 18 and am now doing well for myself. My little brother still lives there and now shes starting to work her magic on him as he is of that age where she can twist and manipulate.....i think thats what his mother is doing.

Or he does have autism. But then how has he coped fine all this time and now he is struggling with it...

He has been in a relationship with you for 2 years and now he camt function in a relationship... he may or may not have autism but he has TMS (toxic mum syndrome)

You are well rid in my opinion! Good luck and congratulations

Also i must add i didnt read the full thread just the first 3 pages. So i apologise if my comment is irrelevent

@OhBloodygreat, @DPotter is correct, there are many more methods of contraception. I really don't think how I got pregnant is the issue here.

@notbankinonit to be honest I can't really remember as it was a year ago, I have a feeling his DM had a lot to do with it and was certainly enthusiastic in chasing up the clinic.

@Cinderpi someone suggested that but I don't know a lot about it. The only problem is that he would need to agree and I'm not sure his DM would agree whether she thought an advocate would be on her side or not... I don't think she'd be happy with anything that would take the decision making out of her hands.

@miserableandinpain not irrelevant at all, in fact very similar to what his DM is doing. Even though it's only been about 6 months since diagnosis she's already got him to believe he is unable to function in a relationship and that he'll never be independent, although the last one I think she's been working on for 37 years. I agree, one of the things I was worried about was that he was being 'primed' for his diagnosis by his mother and that his rather disjointed childhood has a lot more to do with how he is than anything else.