AIBU to think Theresa May should put a restraining order on Nicola Sturgeon?

[Stanleysmum01]

Ok this is meant to be a lighthearted from the start in no way am I belittling what is happening, but if I was Theresa May I would be getting pissed off with her bothering me every five minutes, meetings, letters etc. Yes we are all aware that when Scotland voted they did not know we were going to be voting out of the EU and yes they probably should have another vote on it when and I mean when the details have been finalised so you can make an informed decision, yes thats sensible. But she's like a dog with a bone, going on and on and on. Theresa May like her or loathe her has a very difficult job to do, nobody else has really put their head above the parapet to sort it and she needs time to get on with it. So sorry Nicola stop going all Braveheart on her ass and do one ffs you're not helping or is that the intention. If so here's a restraining order.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Ah but according to NS people only voted No last time because that saved the risk of them inadvertantly finding themselves outside the EU. Now we are leaving anyway her reasoning is all bets are off and Scotland should get to choose between UK and a shot at rejoining EU

Yes, and that's a really important point. The 2014 referendum wasn't just about Scottish independence, it became about the EU, and as you rightly point out that may well have muddied the vote.

[kierenthecommunity]

Another naive Q but I assume if Scotland became independent they would then have a referendum to see if they wanted to join the EU? And it's not guaranteed they will? I know they had a majority voting against Brexit but wasn't it a fairly low turn out? possibly due to referendum fatigue?

So a lot of yes to independence voters could have also been Brexiters who CBA to vote and may not want to join the EU anyway?

Does any of that even make sense?

[howabout]

Completely agree with that kieren but I haven't heard NS offer it.

[RJnomore1]

You also got people like me who turned out to vote stay despite no firm feeling about Europe purely to try to ensure we didn't find ourselves in this fucking endless loop we are in.

I know a few others who will admit to that and it could skew results too I guess.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Interesting, too, that the SNP lost their majority in the Scottish Parliament last time and now have to be propped up by the Greens; also not everyone who voted for them will have agreed with the "referendum bit" of the manifesto

Could it be that Sturgeon et al's single issue, foot-stamping petulance is starting to lose its appeal?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Another naive Q but I assume if Scotland became independent they would then have a referendum to see if they wanted to join the EU?

I would guess not initially, as we just had a referendum, and most Scots voted to remain in the EU, and there have been no significant changes in the EU since then.

However, it is likely that rejoining the EU might take some time, and during that time there could be an election where people could vote for pro.or anti candidates. The wheel of democracy would keep on turning.

And it is a good question, lots of people who want Scottish independence also want independence from the EU.

[howabout]

RJ I voted to Brexit partly to kill off Indyref (I have loads of English friends and relations and they were majority Brexit, so I didn't believe the polls) but I also know loads of other people who like you thought the whole UK would be Remain. I wonder what would have happened if Scotland had voted Leave and UK result had been Remain.

[VeryButchyRestingFace]

And it is a good question, lots of people who want Scottish independence also want independence from the EU.

Interesting. I'm a Scot in Scotland and yet to meet another Scot who wants #EUIndy.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Interesting, too, that the SNP lost their majority in the Scottish Parliament last time

Also interesting to note that they had more overall votes last time. I'm sure you are aware that the Scottish voting system is designed to prevent overall majorities, and it was a particularly lucky combination of votes that got them that majority.

[RJnomore1]

Ooh how I'd love to know your thought process as to how it would kill off ref2?

And that's genuine interest!

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I'm a Scot in Scotland and yet to meet another Scot who wants #EUIndy

"More than one survey has found that around one in three of those who voted yes in 2014 voted to leave the EU."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/nicola-sturgeon-brexit-scottish-independence-snp-second-referendum

[VeryButchyRestingFace]

"More than one survey has found that around one in three of those who voted yes in 2014 voted to leave the EU."

Mebbe but they're no admitting tae it!

[howabout]

puzzled my DC asked me exact same thing this morning. I reckon they will lose more ground to Ruth and co next time round. I also think the Greens will lose votes back to Labour over this.

The way things stand there is more chance of the Lib/Dems, Torys and Labour working in coalition than of the SNP managing to find a willing partner if the Greens are not enough.

The difference in voting system between PR for Holyrood and FPTP for Westminster could mean that SNP still end up with almost all the Westminster seats but in Opposition in Scotland.

If they were to lose Indyref2 badly prior to a GE or Scottish Election the SNP could suffer a Labour style melt down. It is a high stakes game they are playing and I have no idea why. Biding their time would likely deliver Federalism and eventually that would probably morph into Independence with a UK special relationship with everyone content. I do agree the current situation is unstable and unsatisfactory.

[howabout]

RJ I think Brexit makes Indyref2 unwinnable plus my hunch was that the overall UK vote would be Brexit so the best hope of avoiding Indyref2 was if Scotland also voted Brexit.

[thatorchidmoment]

Butchy, as a No and Brexit voter, I can tell you that discussion with anyone holding the opposite views is highly unpleasant. I'm not remotely surprised you haven't come across anyone who is willing to disclose that they voted for Brexit, given the highly emotive and foaming response they would be expecting.

[Imjustapoorboy]

I'm not Scottish so it's not my tussle. I will say I would rather Sotland stayed in the union hand on heart. I hope they do. And I will be heartbrouen if they don't. But. Not my tussle.

[themueslicamel]

I am wondering if the English should have a "Chuck Scotland out" referendum ourselves ........🤔😂

[Imjustapoorboy]

Oh that's helpful...and constructive

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

If they were to lose Indyref2 badly prior to a GE or Scottish Election the SNP could suffer a Labour style melt down

The same thought occurred to me, which perhaps raises the issue of the sheer unpleasantness and inter-community strife which - if last time is anything to go by - would probably herald another Indy referendum

I realise Sturgeon will clutch at anything to shore up her single issue position, though, and do wonder about a PP's suggestion that she might be doing this to deflect attention from all the other issues she's neglecting

[RJnomore1]

Really interesting how thanks.

My thoughts was that a leave vote would give them the idea they had a platform to at least bleat on about it some more so the best thing was remain in Europe.

[MorrisZapp]

Butchy, Jim Sillars has stated he won't vote for independence now if it means re-entering the EU.

Loads of pro indy anti EU people.

I'd say the reason that liberals 'don't know' any no voters or brexiters despite them making up a smidge over half the population is that people don't like being dismissed as racist (brexit) or tory (indy) or swallowing lies (both) and so they keep their gobs shut.

[Isitjustmeorisiteveryoneelse]

The more pish like this I read, OP, the more I pray for independence .....
And the more pish like this I read, the more I pray you get it

[howabout]

themuseli I actually think that is a fair point especially as if my Scottish DC went off to Uni in England they would get no say in Indyref2 but if your English DC came up to a Scottish Uni they would. Go figure.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Scotland gave far more votes to the SNP than they did to any other party, both for Westminster and Holyrood elections.
Presumably Scottish voters realise the SNP is a one-issue party, but still chose them.

iirc, the SNP manifesto said they'd push for IndyRef2 if the UK voted Brexit, because one reason constantly pushed for voting against independence was to stay inside the EU.

Some EU residents of Scotland were even warned / conned by canvassers that they would be expelled if Scotland voted Independence.
I bet they'd vote Indy the 2nd time round !

Spain - and the EU - have said that Scotland as part of an existing EU country is a special case.
Spain has said they would NOT oppose Scottish membership.
However, Scotland may go for membership of EEA / EFTA, not full EU.

Scotland remaining in the EU or EEA / EFTA ?

Grahan Avery (Oxford don & adviser at Brussels) has outlined why he thinks there is a good chance of this:.
Summary in "Prospects" on final page.

http://www.epc.eu/documents/uploads/pub68366scotlandanddtheeuropeann_union.pdf

[Crumbs1]

Personally, at the moment, I'd rather the seat of government moved to Holyrood and England became the devolved authority. Give me NS over TM any day.