AIBU to think Theresa May should put a restraining order on Nicola Sturgeon?

[Stanleysmum01]

Ok this is meant to be a lighthearted from the start in no way am I belittling what is happening, but if I was Theresa May I would be getting pissed off with her bothering me every five minutes, meetings, letters etc. Yes we are all aware that when Scotland voted they did not know we were going to be voting out of the EU and yes they probably should have another vote on it when and I mean when the details have been finalised so you can make an informed decision, yes thats sensible. But she's like a dog with a bone, going on and on and on. Theresa May like her or loathe her has a very difficult job to do, nobody else has really put their head above the parapet to sort it and she needs time to get on with it. So sorry Nicola stop going all Braveheart on her ass and do one ffs you're not helping or is that the intention. If so here's a restraining order.

[LouKout]

A conservative resurgence

[bathshebaneverdene]

Indeed, LouKout, and that resurgence is very largely as a reaction to the SNP and their one policy government.

[QIsForCube]

Saying all that however, I am could be persuaded to vote for independence but now I just can't see how it could happen. Scotland couldn't just join the EU - it's not currently a member and it's far from meeting the requirements anyway. The oil industry is a disaster. Education is a mess.

If I could see that the Scottish Parliament were doing proper things - not giving out free vitamins to pregnant women (oh yes, just in time for the council elections) and 'baby boxes' for goodness sake then at least it would indicate they're actually capable of running a country.

If it actually had a First Minister who came across well and wasn't constantly sulking about Westminster and how everything is their fault. The SNP haven't inspired me with a vision of the future Scotland.

[howabout]

Lulu I am Scottish and anti Independence. Imo English MPs had no business coming up to Scotland to tell Scottish people how to vote in a referendum on SELF- determination. Also, if your friend is as ill informed as you on Scottish financials no wonder he was so widely derided. Most of the "English" aristocracy who own half the highlands are in fact, just like David Cameron, Scottish.

Of course spitting at anyone and being foul mouthed is unacceptable unless among like minded football supporters of the same team in their home pub on a Saturday night. We always draw the line at shenanigans with pigs heads though.

[howabout]

QI even David Mundel is on record as being a fan of baby boxes.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

YANBU. Sturgeon likes to act as though she speaks for Scotland, but there are plenty of us up here who are sick of her political posturing and wish she'd put so much effort into running Scotland (no legislation in 12 months, flagship policies largely disasters) as she does into trying to destroy the UK. Scotland will be out of the EU regardless, and after the revelation that Scots are actually quite Eurosceptic on the whole, she's now saying we might not go back in. There is therefore no justification for her timescale, except perhaps that she wants to squeeze it in before the next elections when they're likely to lose support.

All of the available data, including many polls, say that a majority of people up here don't want another independence referendum until the Brexit landscape is clear. In fact it's so overwhelming that Sturgeon has stopped calling for the will of the Scottish people to be respected (because she herself is not in line with the Scottish people on this), and has changed her rhetoric to demand that the will of the Scottish parliament should be respected (despite repeatedly ignoring it herself when she's outvoted). This is most definitely not the same thing, as people vote for political parties for many different reasons, and many will have believed her when she said she wouldn't call another referendum unless there was clear and sustained support for one (which she defined as 60% for 12 months). Similarly, few would have expected the Greens to actually break their very explicit manifesto pledge that they would only support another referendum if there was a clear desire for one (there clearly isn't).

I'm also getting sick of Sturgeon putting on her oh-so-reasonable voice and claiming she doesn't want one now, she wants one when the terms of Brexit are known. For one thing, most commentators, and the Prime Minister whose timetable she apparently trusts absolutely, have been very clear that the impact won't be known for a few years. But even if the impact would be known in 18 months time, the clock won't start then, it starts now. Campaigning for independence, whether officially or not, starts now, just as the UK is undergoing the most complex negotiations of my lifetime. This can only be a cynical attempt to either try and grow support for independence while the UK government is distracted, or to derail the negotiations so that the UK gets a worse deal. After all, if Brexit is not Armageddon, or if it actually works out fairly well, why would people in Scotland vote for independence, the only thing that has ever mattered to the SNP?

I find myself in the unusual situation of rooting to the Tory Prime Minister on this issue and I'm not alone. NS has indeed achieved something remarkable by making the Tories more popular in Scotland.

[LouKout]

Im not sure why people simultaneously say scotland doesnt want independence yet are so scared of a referendum.

[bathshebaneverdene]

LouKout because it's so divisive and destabilising. The whole referenda debacle should be looked at very closely. Any referenda upending the status quo should have as an absolute minimum a two thirds majority. Including Brexit.

[RJnomore1]

I'm not scared of a referendum.

I'm concerned about the now two years of endless upheaval and debate which will draw the eye away further from the day to day governance and improvement of the country.

I don't want to see the level of argument and bitterness of 2014 recreated.

I'm disappointed but not surprised and sturgeons playing with facts to suit herself st the precise moment.

And I'd like to see the financial cost to the country of another referendum too. Pissing money away.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Lou perhaps people remember how horrific it was last time, and recognise that the divisions in society still haven't healed. Why reopen old wounds when there's no public desire for it?

There are also more practical reasons, such as the continued uncertainty deterring investment that we need need pretty desperately, or the continued distraction in the Scottish parliament making it unlikely that the Scottish government will add to their current tally of zero bills passed in the last year. I'm sure you've noticed that we have some fairly big problems that need attention, all within the remit of the Scottish government, and that the current administration is struggling to implement its program as it stands. Referenda are also very expensive, and Scotland's finances aren't exactly in good shape.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Cross post

[dementedma]

I wish NS and her government would focus on the day job. Ds made his subject choices for S5 a month ago and we got two letters from the school today saying that two of his choices will now probably be unavailable due to there not being enough teachers to cover the demand!!!
FFS. There is so much that needs to be fixed in Scotland at the moment if she could tear herself away from her Indyref obsession.

[TabascoToastie]

Scotland voted to stay in the EU and their vote is being overruled by Westminster.

The majority of Brits did not vote to stay in the EU, and many of those who did now regret it due to the revelations that Leave flat out lied, scammed, and that there was never any exit plan.

Considering the referendum was only ever advisory and was never legally binding in the first place, it's insane something that will seriously damage the country and destroy our economy and our children's future by a minority of ignorant racists.

And Brexiteers have nothing to say other than "nyah nyah you lost get over it!" Do they not realise this makes them sound like actual literal toddlers? Is it any wonder Brits are disturbed by the fact our future is in the hands of people who refuse to engage with democratic processes, have zero understanding of the law or political process, and are incapable of adult debate?

Really at all the "wanting elections and referendums to give people a vote on their own country is undemocratic!" posts.

[RJnomore1]

It is if you just ignore the results.

[VeryButchyRestingFace]

Lulu I am Scottish and anti Independence. Imo English MPs had no business coming up to Scotland to tell Scottish people how to vote in a referendum on SELF- determination

One has to assume he was actually a SNP plant.

Or suicidal.

It's a good strategy. I was an undecided voter until the last gasp. But if PP's MP chum had pitched up on my doorstep with his shite spiel, I'd have galloped down to the polling station to vote YES YES YES so fast Usain Bolt wouldn't have caught me.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Tabasco I'm not even going to dignify your hyperbole with a response, but you're really not doing yourself any favours by damning those with a different view to yours as "ignorant racists"

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us I confess I'd thought that the "12 months without legislation" remarks might have been exaggerated, but am horrified to learn it's true. Almost impossible to believe that any party leader other than an utter charlatan would behave like this, when so many have mentioned the countless issues which need addressing in Scotland ... don't the Sturgeon/SNP supporters care about this??

[NoLotteryWinYet]

In fact, Scotland has far better insurance against the economic consequences of Brexit, any other macro shock I.e oil prices tanking (surely not, that's just negatvity) thanks to the Barnett formula, Scotland paid in when oil prices were high and now it's paying out and protecting Scotland from their budget deficit.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

Useful article below concerning the Barnett formula, specifically: In three of the past 15 years, when oil revenues were high, Scotland paid more than it got out

Perhaps, if Scotland ever chooses independence, we could all ask for a refund of the surplus made in the other 12 years?

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/brian-wilson-remember-how-much-we-owe-barnett-formula-1-4009119

[NoLotteryWinYet]

Or we could accept that there are wider benefits to having Scotland in the U.K. and the economic case for an independent Scotland is destroyed now everyone can see that Scotland's uk membership is a union that has benefited RUK and is now benefiting Scotland - all good unions are give and take. The SNP can't argue Barnett isn't protecting Scots now.

[NoLotteryWinYet]

Also the negative nancies that were taking about Scotland's dependence on oil in the last referendum were proved to be massively right, and the 'positive' SNP critically wrong.

[RortyCrankle]

I doubt that Sturgeon is more than a passing irritant to Theresa May, a bit like a fly or a wasp and TM appears to be adept at swatting her away.

[LuluJakey1]

Well if one of the choices was to stay with England and be part of the UK parliament, I can't see what the issue is with a UK MP saying that is what they would welcome as a solution. Is he not allowed a view about that? Is England not allowed a view about Scotland and independence - a view, not a vote? If it was a vote, many of us would have voted for independence.

[LouKout]

Can't we just vote to be independent of certain types of people?

[BabychamSocialist]

OK, so why doesn't TM just agree to the referendum when Sturgeon wants it - in 18 to 24 months time? Why keep beating around the bush?

[howabout]

TM's having too much fun laughing at Nippy stamping her wee stilettos. Almost as entertaining as winding up Junker, although he at least gets the joke.