To ask if you would think this woman is partly to blame for what happened to her? (Might be triggering for some people)

[NervousNancy]

This has being playing on my mind all day and I just need to get this out so please bear with me and try not to be too harsh.

A young woman goes out clubbing one night with her friends. She dresses up for her night out - skimpy dress, does her makeup, puts on some high heeled shoes, etc. She ends up getting very drunk and ends up getting separated from her friends.

So she is alone, very drunk and clearly not thinking straight. She decides to walk home alone. Unfortunately on her way home she ends up being raped.

Would you say that she is partly responsible for what happened to her and accept some of the blame?

I know of a lady who was raped walking home from work in broad daylight.

That said me and my friends would never let each other walk anywhere drunk and alone as it really is not safe.

None of this is your fault. Regardless of what you were wearing or how drunk you were. He is totally at fault 100%

He saw a young female, vulnerable due to alcohol and alone and took advantage of that fact to commit a heinous crime.

Being told not to walk home alone or get to drunk is just your family's way of trying to keep you safe. Just because you did walk home alone doesn't mean it's your fault.

Is there anyone you can talk to about this?

Basically what everyone else said, always the rapist fault.

I'm only posting (a to add my little bit of support to the OP, and (b because of the comment 'As the judge said last week, do not get so drunk you do not know what you are doing, do not spend all your money have enough left for a proper taxi'

Clearly neither the judge or you remember that John Worboys was a 'proper' taxi driver. . . .

milliemolliemou Wed 29-Mar-17 18:31:26
"cory I suspect advice to young men is increasing among parents. Very much along the lines as given to young women - drink makes you more liable to take risks//get pummelled in fights/stabbed/not be able to read other people's intents and get into appalling situations. None of these situations their faults."

Can't you see what you are doing here? You are comparing the situation of a man getting into fight (so with agency) with a woman being raped (a victim). Obviously if you get into a fight, you choose to enter a risky situation. Which is why my scenario is about a man being mugged (a victim).

My son did not choose to get into a fight last year because his judgment was impaired. He was knocked down in an unprovoked attack and had his head stamped on. Do I blame him for simply being present on a street where a violent attacker was also present? Did the police blame him for having provoked the attack simply by not staying at home? Anyone like three guesses here? (remembering this is a boy we are talking about)

I have taught my son not to get into fights and he doesn't. This does not in itself make him safe. But at least- because he is a boy- it makes him pretty safe from any suggestions that being violently attacked is his fault. His sister has no such immunity. If she is attacked, she can confidently look forward to the justice system suggesting that her presence/dress/helplessness is part of the problem.

So sorry op. Don't know what to say apart from

Well said cory

No!

Men rape women because women are weaker. If women were generally over 6 foot and built like navvies and men were generally nine stone and five foot five, it wouldn't happen.

They do it because they know, and you know, they can overpower you.

You are already helpless by virtue of your sex.

This is why it can happen at 1 o'clock in the afternoon, in a public place or with someone you trust.

You were just shit out of luck that you crossed paths with a rapist. Being sober and wearing a boiler suit doesn't magically transform the dynamic that makes men rape women.

I'm so sorry for your experience. And please, please contact the rape crisis centre. They will get it immediately.

If she was sober and walking home at 2am there is also still a chance she could be raped. Rapists aren't picky.

*bluestocking please RTFT before commenting. The op is the one this happened to. Even the last few posts will tell you that.

Nope nope nope nope nope.

How would it be her fault? If she was stabbed, would that be her fault? Or if she had her bag stolen?

This is a variation of what happened to me at age 20. I'm 34 now.

I still can't talk about it for fear of attracting blame for something that was not my fault at all. I know that I am blameless but I'm still seen to have some part in it.

It is attitudes like this that make it so so hard to come forward and talk about this. I had a panic attack in court.

So yeah, not her fault. She could've been blackout drunk totally naked and it's still the fault of the rapist.

Also worth mentioning that these cases are vanishingly rare, vast majority of sexual assault happens when the attacker is known to the victim, largely partners and close friends. So if anything is provocative it's probably having one glass of wine and wearing jeans.

Good God. The victim is never ever to blame.

Is this a joke thread? What a fucking ridiculous question.

I cannot believe people are not even bothering to read the handful of posts above their entry. Or even the first few from the OP.

Please be sensitive people.

This troubles my mind, living in a developed country and expecting a better jurisdiction system meaning that the question like this should never been in any girl's head. A rapist is a person who commit a serious crime(oh please dont compare with a fight here, especially about boys involving in fights voluntarily or not because this happens to girls too, please you cant compare with robbery or similar). To me the rapist is nearly a murderer.

There are various way to (proof) protect ourself from an "accident" including restricting your alcohol limit, however only for lowing a risk of an "accident" happened. Rapists are human, they chose the victim the moment they want to act, the system must penalise these (no better than animals) rapists better to reduce the risk, not to tell a girl( especially young girl) that wear sensible clothes, be tall and strong, learn martial art, have something in your pocket to defense, do not trust any stranger on the street who is approaching you, never on your own anywhere(even in your home)...the list could be endless...(Someone in US could say, none of this will help to escape from a rapist, just have a gun with you always and shoot him)...Seriously this is depressing, I just can never agree with anyone using a rape case to educate victims/girls in general especially a judge whose word is taken as gold.

(((((((((())))))))))))). Love, support and hand hold.
I speak not only for myself but for all the mumsnet community. When I say.
We believe you, and. It was not your fault in anyway
X

Nancy

I can't add anything to what the majority of what others have said, other than to say you were not to blame. Only the rapist is to blame - always, regardless of the circumstances. It doesn't matter what someone is wearing, how much they have had to drink or whether they are walking home alone.

You say you are scared about getting help because people will judge you or not take you seriously - it's not too late to go the rape crisis centre you mentioned - they won't judge you and could really help with how you're feeling. Alternatively, Rape Crisis has a website and and a freephone helpline. Perhaps you could start by checking out the website or giving them a call.

General note: It would be helpful if people read the thread before posting.

for you OP. Of course you are not to blame! Rapists are disgusting cowards and are 100% responsible for their abhorrent behaviour, the victim is never to blame. Unfortunately we as women cannot control the actions of these vile rapists, and I think sometimes the advice to not get drunk/wear provocative clothing gets turned into victim blaming, but I see it as sensible advice in the main part. It isn't good that women have to be vigilant because of rapists, but they simply are more likely to pick on a vulnerable woman to rape whether she is vulnerable and drunk or vulnerable because she is alone etc. I would advise my dd not to get too drunk and to stay with friends when on a night out and not to get a taxi alone, as was my mothers advice to me. We can't change the rapists but we can make steps ourselves as attempted preventative measures, it may not always apply but keeping yourself as safe as possible is important. I also think men are aware of the victim blaming of drunk girls and that will factor in their decision making process as they may well be let off because there is doubt over consent because of alcohol

Sincere apologies OP, I hadn't realised!
Have requested removal of previous post.
💐

No, no and thrice no!!!!

I always think if you switched 'raped' for 'murdered' in these scenarios, it quickly becomes apparent how ludicrous it is to suggest that the victim is in any way to blame.

'She could've avoided being murdered if she'd just been less drunk.'

'She could've avoided being murdered if she hadn't have accepted that drink from that guy, if she hadn't been wearing that short skirt,' etc.

Bonkers and offensive.

When young Alice Gross was killed by that Latvian guy while walking alone, no one suggested she could've prevented it if she hadn't been down that towpath by herself.

I'm so sorry, OP. It is not your fault. Not now, not ever. This was his fault, his actions, his predatory behaviour.

"By promoting changes to womens' behaviour, we're really saying "make sure he rapes the other girl"".