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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if you would think this woman is partly to blame for what happened to her? (Might be triggering for some people)

273 replies

NervousNancy · 29/03/2017 17:41

This has being playing on my mind all day and I just need to get this out so please bear with me and try not to be too harsh.

A young woman goes out clubbing one night with her friends. She dresses up for her night out - skimpy dress, does her makeup, puts on some high heeled shoes, etc. She ends up getting very drunk and ends up getting separated from her friends.

So she is alone, very drunk and clearly not thinking straight. She decides to walk home alone. Unfortunately on her way home she ends up being raped.

Would you say that she is partly responsible for what happened to her and accept some of the blame?

OP posts:
blackteasplease · 30/03/2017 12:13

Absolutely not. Rapist 100% to blame.

As others have said, it wouldn't have happened if he hadnt been there.

The dressing up etc doesnt even make it more likely to happen. Walking down that particular road is the other thing that even plays into the idea of causation. But that doesnt make it her fault either.

blackteasplease · 30/03/2017 12:15

Sorry I didnt rtft Blush

But everything I said I still mean

So sorry for what happened. Definitely not your fault.

KindDogsTail · 30/03/2017 12:16

She was not to blame.

blackteasplease · 30/03/2017 12:16

Nobody gets raped because of what they are wearing or look like ime (work in criminal justice). Most rape victims turn out to have been wearing jeans, their culturally modest clothing or quite often their pyjamas (lots of rapes happen in their own bed).

blackteasplease · 30/03/2017 12:16

Nobody gets raped because of what they are wearing or look like ime (work in criminal justice). Most rape victims turn out to have been wearing jeans, their culturally modest clothing or quite often their pyjamas (lots of rapes happen in their own bed).

FeliciaJollygoodfellow · 30/03/2017 12:19

Also, personally therapy didn't help me at all. Knowing that women everywhere believe me makes me accept that it wasn't my fault even if there are some shits (thanks dad Hmm) that seem to believe the woman always has some fault.

Tell your DP. I did. It was so so hard, but knowing he's behind me always is a great salve when I'm feeling shitty about it.

DJBaggySmalls · 30/03/2017 12:22

NervousNancy
No, it is never the victims fault. Its a myth that men cannot control their urges or that women provoke assault.

We give safety advice based on the behaviour of predators and how they target their victims, to hopefully cut down the chances of becoming a target.

In the meantime, London police alone deal with 3 sexual assaults and rapes by taxi drivers every week.
www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/uber-drivers-accused-of-32-sex-attacks-on-london-customers-in-one-year-a3251706.html

ButtMuncher · 30/03/2017 12:26

Oh OP Flowers

You're not to blame. Put it this way - you could have been drunk and got into a cab home and been raped by the cab driver. That still wouldn't have been your fault. Or you could have decided to stay at a friends house and their housemate took advantage of you. Still not your fault. Nothing of your horrible experience was your fault - the rapist choose to rape you that night and the blame lies solely with that person and that person alone.

KindDogsTail · 30/03/2017 12:44

Before, after just reading your opening post, I did not know you were specifically talking about yourself.
I am so sorry this happened to you.Your were absolutely not to blame, as everyone has been explaining. Flowers

KindDogsTail · 30/03/2017 12:50

Yes, to what ButtMuncher said.
And then there are drunk women who are escorted home by men they know who are apparently acting chivalrously to "help" them, who then rape them.

It was not your fault.

Original poster
NervousNancy · 01/04/2017 21:16

Sorry for posting again but still a bit confused about this whole thing.

What is the difference between saying someone is more vulnerable to attack and actually saying it's their fault if something happens? Surely if someone put themselves in a dangerous situation they bare some of the responsibility if something does happen?

I should have fought harder or chucked my heels away and started running but I didn't. Well I did try but he caught me because I was wearing high heels and was drunk so couldn't run very fast Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
NervousNancy · 01/04/2017 21:18

I know I could have been raped any time and by anyone. I could have been walked home by a friend and he could have raped me but that's not what happened. I chose to put myself in a bad situation.

OP posts:
user1487175389 · 01/04/2017 21:21

Most races happen to people who are stone cold sober wearing jeans and t shirt. Perhaps we should be blaming sober people in standard clothes for what happens to them too? As Olivia Colman says in Broad church 'Race isn't about sex, it's about power.' think that's what she said anyway.

user1487175389 · 01/04/2017 21:22

rapes not races.

applesauce1 · 01/04/2017 21:40

Putting oneself at risk and being at fault are different things. I agree that the hypothetical woman you describe would be more vulnerable because of her isolation and inebriation, but only because there are truly evil people who pray on vulnerable people. They are the ones at fault. 100%.

I lock my doors to avoid being burgled, but if I didn't, and some twat robbed me of my possessions, that wouldn't be my fault! Yes, my house would be more vulnerable, but it is the burglar who has committed the crime and made an informed choice to be a bastard. I wouldn't have helped them with that choice. Don't confuse vulnerability with culpability.

Fauxgina · 01/04/2017 21:41

The difference is the language and who it is aimed at Nancy. I think it would be best for you to come to a point where you can look at the rapist and realise what happened to you was his fault.

You were a girl, who had planned a normal evening and had planned a normal life. He had evil intent. His actions and his intent caused you to be raped. You were not a part of what happened. It happened to you not with you.

Please speak to the experts and let them help you.

Fauxgina · 01/04/2017 21:42

Alternatively, you can call the national Rape Crisis helpline (run by our member Centre Rape Crisis South London) on 0808 802 9999 between 10am and midnight every day from Monday 27th February to Sunday 23rd April 2017

Daydream007 · 01/04/2017 21:46

She is not to blame at all for the actions of a rapist.

RandomMess · 01/04/2017 21:49

Putting yourself in a vulnerable position...

It's only a vulnerable position because there are people out there looking to take advantage there shouldn't even be a "vulnerable position" that one is able to put oneself in.

The rules of society is that rape is wrong and illegal just as is murder or theft one shouldn't have to guard against these things should they?

applesauce1 · 01/04/2017 21:57

Nancy,
I think your confusion might be to do with a misconceptions that we can really influence or control the behaviours of others. If you go down that route, any victim of any crime could be at fault for simply being alive and existing as a potential victim. There are some terrible people in the world, and there is nothing that we can do to control who they victimise.

When I was a young teen, I was on a camping holiday and walked myself home from a group to my family's tent. I wasn't drunk, but I was wearing a short summer dress. A lad from the group offered to walk me back and attempted to sexually attack me on the way. I will never forget how panicked I felt. I am pretty sure he would have succeeded if I'd been too drunk to fight him off. I was definitely vulnerable, but that situation was in no way my fault. The choice I was making was to walk 'home'. The choice he made was to try to force himself on me. Very different choices. He was at fault.

Women are to blame for their own rapes in the same way that the police officer who died in the line of duty last week is at fault for being a police officer.

VestalVirgin · 01/04/2017 22:11

The rules of society is that rape is wrong and illegal just as is murder or theft one shouldn't have to guard against these things should they?

Sadly, rape is treated completely differently from other crimes.

If you have something stolen, no one asks you "Are you sure you didn't want to gift him all your jewellery? Really, really, sure? You know, many people regret expensive gifts, that doesn't mean it was theft!!! It was in a safe? Are you sure you didn't just want him to have some fun unwrapping it?"

Which is why, while the rapist is always 100% to blame, I fully understand if a victim doesn't want to be dragged through that shit in court.

streetch · 01/04/2017 22:14

I'm interested to know how you know for a fact that it wouldn't have happened if you'd been sober? I understand that it made you less able to fight or run but whose fault was it that you would need to do that anyway? Its harder for disabled people to fight off attackers, should they never go out alone? The only reason you were raped is because someone decided to rape you

VestalVirgin · 01/04/2017 22:19

Women are to blame for their own rapes in the same way that the police officer who died in the line of duty last week is at fault for being a police officer.

Not exactly.

This person did choose to be a police officer.

We don't choose to be women.

Now, I don't imply that anyone is ever at fault for a crime being done to them, but when this person becomes a police officer, they choose the risk to potentially die in duty.

I am sure quite a lot of women would rather lead the low-risk lives that men get. But we don't have that choice.

LastnightaDJ · 01/04/2017 22:22

I was attacked on my way home from work one night, wearing my office clothes. Sober. I just mention this so that you see it can happen to anyone regardless of dress or inebriation. Attackers are to blame, not us.

applesauce1 · 01/04/2017 23:39

*Vestalvirgin
*
That's a good point. I was being overly reductive in saying that although there certainly are choices that women can make to ensure we are safer, it definitely isn't out choice if someone decides to commit a crime against us.

I wonder what the true percentage is of women who have been sexually assaulted in some way. I don't think I know any woman who hasn't experienced flashing, groping, or an actual attempted rape. It's appalling.

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