To ask if you would think this woman is partly to blame for what happened to her? (Might be triggering for some people)

[NervousNancy]

This has being playing on my mind all day and I just need to get this out so please bear with me and try not to be too harsh.

A young woman goes out clubbing one night with her friends. She dresses up for her night out - skimpy dress, does her makeup, puts on some high heeled shoes, etc. She ends up getting very drunk and ends up getting separated from her friends.

So she is alone, very drunk and clearly not thinking straight. She decides to walk home alone. Unfortunately on her way home she ends up being raped.

Would you say that she is partly responsible for what happened to her and accept some of the blame?

Austin Powers got it right.
The victim is NEVER to blame. Ever ever ever

The fault lies 100% with the turd that raped this girl.

However, perhaps what the judge was trying to say was that falling about drunk alone late at night makes you vulnerable. This applies to males and females. Guys risk getting beaten up or robbed girls risk the same or worse. This doesn't make it the fault of the victim, it's simply stating a fact.

He shouldn't have comitted the crime, but, I would say that wearing skimpy clothes, being drink and walking alone does put you at greater risk.

The woman may be more vulnerable to a predatory attacker, but is absolutely not to blame in any way. If a rapist decides to rape, that is not in the control of his victim.

Rapists rape. No one else, just the rapist.

There are a number or reasons (including socialisation/mysogyny/victim blame culture) to self blame after an attack. One reason is that it give us the illusion of control - if we are at fault, if our descion lead to the attack, then by making different descion- baggy clothes, staying in- we can 'protect' ourselves. In the aftermath of terror any illusion of safety is comforting. At some point in healing we need to face the reality that we have no control. If that rapist didn't come across you on that path he may have come across you in a bar & drugged your drink. Or he may have asked you out, acted all lovely, then beat you and raped you for years to come. Or you may have walked home sober, in day time and still he might have come across you and raped you. You may have been to weak to fight. Or you may have frozen like many do-normal response. You may have done anything and everything different and still came across him and he raped you. Or may be your different actions meant you don't meet him, but still you are raped, because there are other rapists out there- the common factor being that some men choose to rape- that's where blame lies. This is the reality that we face at some point. The self blame hides us from this, the reality that there was nothing we could have done, and worse- there is nothing we can do in future to keep ourselves safe from this happening again- this is the reality that clinging to self blame hides us from. And confronting this is hard. We can stop drinking, take up self defense classes, only go out in day light & a hundred other things that we think keep us safe from rape but it doesn't, the only factor that can keep us safe from rape is rapists not raping us.

This is the truth that hits us in the face when we let the self blame go. And it's hard, because to live at all we need some sense of safety. But there are other ways that comes back in time once we left go of the illusions. It takes time though. & it means putting the blame firmly back where it belongs- with the rapists.

smile I've often argued that the best way to avoid rape is to 1. Not have a vulva/vagina or, failing that, 2. Don't be friends with, date, cohabit with or marry men.

Nobody forced her to get drunk or walk home alone. Those were all her decisions.

And if she had stumbled and fallen because she walked drunk on high heels, and if she had woken up with her clothes soaked by rain and somewhere in the ditch, then that would have been her fault.

But there was a rapist. Who decided to rape her. If he had not found a drunk victim, he would probably have gone for a sober woman walking home alone.
Or for two sober women walking home alone.

All this "how to avoid rape" advice for women is actually "how to increase the likelihood that the rapist goes rape someone else instead" advice. The rape still happens, because there is a rapist. Who rapes.

Are you insane? Getting raped is her fault????

Yes she put herself at risk and there are things all of us can do to reduce our risk.
But rape is never justified or the fault of the victim.

The follow on from that kind of logic is that men can't control themselves and the onus is on women to stay out of their way. So, what - if you happen to be beautiful or have a good body you should hide indoors? We shouldn't wear make up?

I think it is foolish to go out and get drunk and be alone walking home. And certainly looking and behaving in certain ways can attract attention, but she didn't deserve being raped.

That should have been "two sober women walking home together", of course.

Yes, MaidOfStars. Funny how everyone objects once one suggests number 2.

Most women are raped by men they know very well- normally partner or ex, I don't think we can reduce our risk unless we stay away from men permenantly.

Go with me here:
I could hope that there are men for whom ideas of consent aren't explicitly spelled out, and for whom a harsh lesson in consent might change their behaviour?
Or that we might empower women sufficiently that they are enabled to say No, enabled to confide, enabled to report and believed when they do.

This could prevent more rapes than the 'stranger' rape?

No, she's not to blame for someone raping her.

Another way of looking at it is, I'm t-total, I've neve drank anything, ever, (and I'm 33) ... anyway, that hasn't meant I haven't gone to clubs and pubs, that I haven't dressed up for a night out that I haven't been around drunk people, I am perfectly happy being in that environment and around alcohol without consuming it! So because I've out myself in a position where people are wanting to drink, does that mean I should be made to drink alcohol? Is it ok for someone to spike my drink? Because I'm obviously out to enjoy myself, perhaps someone thinks I might want to drink even if I'm saying no.

Does that make it clearer, it's obviously a much less drastic and horrific thing to being raped. But i equally have out myself in places and positions where people may think, well she was out for a good time, we should give her a bit of alcohol.

No means no, and being drunk out of your mind means no. no excuses, no matter what you're wearing or how you're acting, unless your able to consent and say yes, then it's always no.

That is the only way a woman can prevent rape Maid.

All the other ways depend on the man not doing any raping.

No. no. No. no. And no. 0% blame, 100% on the rapist.

Nancy so sorry - I missed the part where you said it was you.

My post was written that way because of how shocking and wrong I believe it is for anyone to blame the victim. I hope in some way that makes you feel better.

Perhaps you did put yourself at risk. But even if you were sober, dressed in trousers and baggy tops, the wrong person could have crossed your path and it still would not have been your fault. Conversely, hundreds of women have been in similar situations to you - skimpily dressed, drunk, walking - and people have helped or protected them by putting them in a cab home or just not taking advantage of them.

The rapist is the one who did something terrible and is entirely to blame, not you at all. I hope you get whatever help you need

Being vulnerable to rape means being female/having a vagina- being vulnerable isn't sone thing you make or don't make yourself

Walking home alone drunk isn't making yourself a target- being a woman in a relationship with a man makes us all easy targets. This is where most rapes occur- so almost all of us are 'making ourselves and easy target' if you think of it in terms like this.

Wearing skimpy clothes is not making yourself a target. Sleeping next to the man you love every night makes you a target.

Being drunk isn't putting yourself at risk- being born female means we are at risk, mostly from men close to us.

The op/woman in article were probably safer walking home drunk than they would have been to go home sober with their partner. That's the reality. Most rapists are men we love.

This is victim blaming bs.

There are lots of reasons to take better care of ourselves than getting super drunk & walking home in the dark- a car not seeing us until too late, passing out & choking on vomit, hundreds of reasons really but rape is most likely when we sensible go home with a man we trust. Not walking in the dark at night. Statisticly probably safer with regards to rape.

I haven't read the whole thread so this may have already been said but...

Yes, there are always going to be things that the victim could have done differently which might have kept them away from that situation. But that is in no way the same as saying that they share the blame for what happened. In reality all it would probably mean is that it would happen to someone else instead of them.

That rapist didn't materialise out of thin air because of some bad choices the victim made. He would have been out there either way. He and he only is the one to blame for what happened.

Counterpoint:

I put this into perspective when I thought that Marine should have been let off from killing the so-called insurgent.

The insurgent was helpless (c.f. drunk woman) when the Marine came upon him (c.f. rapist). The marine decided he was 'an idiot' and shot him (along those lines as far as I can gather from MSM).

But Marine is to be freed - so by same logic, so should a rapist stumbling upon a woman having made herself helpless.

Are you drunk? I can't believe you tried to even draw a comparison between these two incidents.

If you cannot work out the difference between the actions of the soldier and the actions of the rapist then I'm truly worried for you.

Wow some of these responses have made me cry (in a good way). Thank you so much

I haven't had any therapy. I've literally told no one, not even my DP. I've always been too scared to; afraid they'd all judge me and blame me. Afraid they'd think it was my fault so they wouldn't take me seriously.

Somebody on another forum recommended that I go to a rape crisis centre for advice and there is one near me but I chickened out because deep down I keep blaming myself.

I keep blaming myself but I know at the same time that if I hadn't been raped that night and something else had happened to me instead; say if I had been mugged or beaten up instead then I wouldn't still be blaming myself 14 years later. I also would have reported it if something else had happened to me but I just felt to dirty and ashamed to report my rape.

if the rapist had decided not to commit rape, then she wouldn't have been raped.

If a rapist decided to rape a woman, he will rape a woman regardless of her clothes of intoxication

The rapist is purely to blame

Why would it be different just because you are a woman, and the crime was rape, not theft?

I don't know. I just know it feels different somehow

Its surprising how strong men can be.

Yes he was very strong when he had his hands round my neck and wouldn't let me go. It felt like super human strength. I honestly don't know if I would have managed to get away if I had being sober.

Maybe RTFT ...