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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - no idea if this was racist?

288 replies

thisIsMyNewUserName · 29/03/2017 16:24

I'm narrowing myself down to a few hundred people (in theory) so want to be careful with identifying myself in real life.

Someone made a complaint about a colleague. During a meeting, babies were discussed. He said something like "Well, Asian ones are by far the cutest". Someone made a complaint and he has a meeting with HR next week about it. They suggested he contact a union rep should he wish as well as including a pdf of various policies within the company which I think points to bad news.

He's white, BTW. His wife is too and they've a 6 month old blonde-haired, blue-eyes daughter

I think he was at absolute worst a little immature but am interested in a consensus. AIBU thinking he should be given the benefit of the doubt? He's expecting to be hung, drawn and quartered.

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 30/03/2017 00:47

Really people don't see the issue with this

I thought we had moved on from all asian babies are cute/black people are good dancers/mixed race children are beautiful

They might be seen as positive (though saying to an Asian person mixed white/Asian children are always beautiful can also imply one either white or Asian is not and we know there is historical bias) but putting all in one group no matter how positive can be patronising and give the impress you do not see people as individuals but by their skin colour/ethnicity

LightDrizzle · 30/03/2017 00:55

It is tricky. He was unwise but probably not racist.
We all make generalisations, - women prefer tall men (not true for all women), it just gets particularly dodgy when they fall along race lines. Posters are right to point out that changing the statement to refer to white babies would be seen as racist.
I work in quite a right-on environment with very ethnically diverse colleagues and clients and between ourselves we sometimes use the word "brown" in a slightly pisstaking ironic way (Kurdish origin colleague moaning about senior management expecting her to step up to diversity roles "because I'm brown") we have jokily agreed about "brown babies" being the best which we wouldn't say outside our tight circle.
As it happens, I do have an aesthetic preference for black or dark mixed-race skin. I'm fine with white faces, but big expanses of white skin reminds me a bit of shaved cats or plucked chickens, it shows blemishes and broken veins badly and often looks mottled. I've only shared that with my adult daughter as I know it sounds a bit yuck, funnily enough she agrees. If I disliked black or dark skin I'd sure as hell not share it with anyone as it seems so offensive and racist.

I think this man has been unlucky to get more than an undocumented verbal warning for a first offence.

UnconventionalWarfare · 30/03/2017 01:25

For those who dont find it racist this short information film will bring you upto speed

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 30/03/2017 02:17

You, your children, your partner, will never understand how it feels. Piss off with your goady racism.

Really Salem? Did you read my comment about being a white South African and therefore it's assumed I'm a racist all the bloody time, even though I most certainly am not? As far as I'm concerned it's racist treating me as if I'm a racist. I so often get comments like: Oh, you're South African? That must mean you're a racist. And when people see me hug my black friends, they are totally shocked because a racist is hugging a black person. Yes, I've experienced racism. And this is another can of worms that only South Africans will understand, but reverse racism is common in SA now. White people get persecuted every single day. I fear for my sister and her family's life sometimes. But there you go. You're correct, I haven't a clue.

PenelopeFlintstone · 30/03/2017 02:26

Not racist. Not inappropriate.

fuffapster · 30/03/2017 04:06

I think it's inappropriate and it can be very annoying to be lumped into a broad category of billions of people.

KurriKurri and others say it well.

I wouldn't have reported the comment for racism though. For me it would be on the level of minor annoyance. The best reaction would just to explain politely to the person how it can feel annoying.

SuperBeagle · 30/03/2017 04:08

Not remotely racist.

FixItUpChappie · 30/03/2017 04:16

He's another victim of the professionally offended set Hmm. Ridiculous ffs

Atenco · 30/03/2017 04:20

When there are so many serious problems with racists, this is the ultimate in nitpicking, IMHO.

As for this He says that white people are easier to photograph and make for a better picture than black people

It depends how white the person is and how strong the sun. White people under the Mexican sun come out looking like potatoes.

Newmanwannabe · 30/03/2017 05:00

I think the person seeing it as racist is actually the racist person.

Is what he said really any different to me saying "babies with blond hair and blue eyes are the cutest"? By attaching a racial undertone to a comment about a collective group of features is the problem not saying asian babies are cute. And actually he is correct. Babies with straight black hair, epicanthic eye folds and slightly darker than pink skin tone are extremely cute..... is that more PC??

Squills · 30/03/2017 07:59

How on earth can his comment be judged as being racist!

EBearhug · 30/03/2017 09:00

Did this 'someone' have the courage, honesty or just plain decency to talk to the person involved? From what you say, no. They 'made a complaint'. Shoddy, shallow and worthless individual indeed.

We don't know what happened or the background. We don't know what the history is, we only have what the OP told us. The complainant probably isn't anonymous to HR, but they have to investigate amy complaint, and will want to do so without prejudicing what others say - they will want to focus on what was said when and in what context. They don't want that influenced by lots of, "oh well, X always was massively over-sensitive, you can't take anything they say seriously," though they'll have enough of it anyway in some cases, "who said it? I bet it was Y!" But they have to try and get as clear a picture of what went on, then decide whether the complainer and/or the person complained about needs education on what is acceptable or not and when things should be challenged. Their response may be different, depending on whether it's a one-off incident from either side, or a pattern of behaviour.

It is a racist thing to say because it is based on stereotypes and generalisations. Probably most people wouldn't complain, because either they don't see it, or recognise it's minor and they'll be told they're being over-sensitive, and they haven't got the energy to fight every single thing, because it would take up their entire lives.

Gabilan · 30/03/2017 09:17

And actually he is correct. Babies with straight black hair, epicanthic eye folds and slightly darker than pink skin tone are extremely cute..... is that more PC??

Apparently he said "Asian" babies. The description you give is pretty specific and doesn't include large numbers of people from Asia. It's also quite subjective. (Though babies in general being cute is more objective, since we've evolved to find things like proportionally large eyes cute and so protect young more).

Personally I don't find it offensive but I do think that when you unpack it, it plays to racist stereotypes. I can understand why in some circumstances it would be reported. It might be just yet one more example of what's going on in a workplace that makes that place uncomfortable to be. So one comment on its own is unproblematic, but as part of a series it becomes annoying.

I work with someone who's driven me to the point of applying for other jobs and getting out, even though I really like the job that I'm doing. It's a continual drip feed of minor things that if reported singly, make me sound hypersensitive. But as a picture, day in day out, over years, by Christ but it's wearing and I want out.

jojo2916 · 30/03/2017 09:25

He said nothing wrong if someone is offended so what it's ok to be offended, being ott re language used for minority groups can make others feel awkward around them in case they are not pc, ott PC crap like this causes isolation the opposite of what it's supposed to do. We should stop worrying about offending people and just have a general rule of respect to all.

Rossigigi · 30/03/2017 09:28

It was s positive statement and I think management are going to far. It may not have been totally appropriate however it was not said with menace was it?

HookandSwan · 30/03/2017 09:32

Not racist at all!!! Poor guy Serupusly this country has gone PC mad!

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 30/03/2017 09:41

I wonder how many on here will think about if they do make such general sweeping statements maybe it's time to stop even if they are to them positive statements

Becuase what is is doing is seeing people as a group/other and not seeing people as individuals

It might not come from a bad place and often isn't but it can offend at worse some are not bothered and others find it patronising

So isn't it best just to think well I don't want to cause offence of be patronising

Gabilan · 30/03/2017 09:49

We should stop worrying about offending people and just have a general rule of respect to all

Except that as has been argued time and again, stereotyping is disrespectful. The fact that it's apparently positive stereotyping doesn't stop it being stereotyping. It's lumping millions, if not billions, of people together as one thing. And actually often behind what appears positive there is a darker side. Someone up thread mentioned a woman who argued that she dated black men because they have bigger penises. Might all sound fine and positive but there's a whole history there of black men being seen as sexual predators and being persecuted because of it - and as being more animal, and you can hopefully work out for yourselves where that led.

As I said before, unless there's a big back story I don't think this man should have anything more serious than being talked to and sent on awareness training. But cries of "hmph, you can't say anything these days" don't actually represent a reasoned argument.

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 10:00

We should stop worrying about offending people and just have a general rule of respect to all

Fine, then it still isn't alright, is it? How is it respectful to lump all Asians into one category and then comment on their appearance? Do Chinese people look even vaguely like Sri Lankans? Do Iraqi's look like Japanese?
Of course they don't, so putting them all in one group and calling them either a good thing or a bad thing is inherently disrespectful.

I can't believe so many of you are so obtuse.

Zeffering · 30/03/2017 10:04

Not racist in the slightest and cant believe how this shit makes it to HR and a disciplinary.
World gone mad. If my OH had that come across to him from one of his employees he would tell them behave and get a grip- or they would be looking for a job themselves

TathitiPete · 30/03/2017 10:05

'Reverse' racism Hmm

grannytomine · 30/03/2017 10:09

Can't people see that a positive statement about one group is negative about another? Quite apart from the stereotyping etc if you want to be negative about one group then making a positive statement about the other group does it in a supposedly positive way.

So lets say at the moment that there is a concern about white, working class boys failing at school, apparently the statistics support that alot of white working class boys aren't doing well. You can lump all working class boys together and say that all white working class boys are failing and that is negative but you could say Asian boys are really successful at school compared to other groups. If your son's Head teacher said that to the media and you are white, working class, or you had a daughter, or were black would you find it negative? Particularly if your non Asian child was really successful?

The sad thing is it actually manages to insult everyone.

weatherbomb · 30/03/2017 10:10

If the person has a habit of making these sorts of comments then a complaint is justified. As a one-end off standalone comment with no other issues it's unfortunate & a telling off would suffice - not labelled a racist. I'm sure the company concerned has a clear policy & may just need to remind it's employees of the policies it expects to be adhered to.
It's a shame that those offended can't just speak up but I guess it depends on the situation and staff level perhaps. Also some people just dont think before opening their mouths.

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 30/03/2017 10:11

And just thought I'd mention - white people have been lumped into one category almost forever. All white people are racist. All white people think they're superior etc etc - the list goes on. But that's OK is it? Because it can't be racist if you're white?

jojo2916 · 30/03/2017 10:13

Anyone offended by a compliment to a particular group which they are not part of needs to grow up , the comment wasn't nasty or vindictive some of you must look for things to be offended about