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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - no idea if this was racist?

288 replies

thisIsMyNewUserName · 29/03/2017 16:24

I'm narrowing myself down to a few hundred people (in theory) so want to be careful with identifying myself in real life.

Someone made a complaint about a colleague. During a meeting, babies were discussed. He said something like "Well, Asian ones are by far the cutest". Someone made a complaint and he has a meeting with HR next week about it. They suggested he contact a union rep should he wish as well as including a pdf of various policies within the company which I think points to bad news.

He's white, BTW. His wife is too and they've a 6 month old blonde-haired, blue-eyes daughter

I think he was at absolute worst a little immature but am interested in a consensus. AIBU thinking he should be given the benefit of the doubt? He's expecting to be hung, drawn and quartered.

OP posts:
Zeffering · 30/03/2017 14:00

Gabilan quote
'And I'd take my postgrad qualifications and experience with me'

And so you could- but I guarantee there will be someone right behind you to take your shoes where you have left off, Rest assured

Fact of life I am afraid. No wonder businesses struggle to be competative in the UK as it seems you need an HR dept bigger than you workforce these days.

Load of nonesense it really is.

fernanie · 30/03/2017 14:35

Some people are going to hate this, but I really don't think it's racist to say white babies are the cutest either. You can have an aesthetic preference that isn't necessarily bound up in the politics of the last few centuries.

Coming at it from a different perspective, I see this sort of superlative phrasing used in a hyperbolic way quite often, rather than a literal comparative one ("You guys are the best!" "That top is the cutest on you!" "That guy is the worst" etc.) I think it's an Americanism that's found its way over here. Could it be that the man in the OP meant his comment in that sense?

GuinessPunch · 30/03/2017 14:57

Having a big bum is a positive comment aswell though.

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 16:01

Racists believe their race is superior so the man wasn't being racist

People don't actually think its that simplistic, do they? Even now?

Atenco · 30/03/2017 16:04

this country has gone PC mad!

It would seem so except for the very serious cases of racism that do exist, while people are being exquisite about these niceties.

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 16:06

Isn't it funny that the more people whine about "PC gone mad" the more actual racist problems are reported as happening?

Flipthebirdy · 30/03/2017 16:14

Again, there is a difference between communicating a preference and communicating something as though it were factual.

justnowords · 30/03/2017 16:21

Again, there is a difference between communicating a preference and communicating something as though it were factual.
But any person with an IQ over 10 would realise that someone stating their aesthetic preference of babies (which is what he did) is quite clearly a personal preference and not a matter of fact. I mean, is it not fucking obvious? And I disagree that saying one set is cute, means that the other is not. If one of my friends said they thought asian babies were cutest, and another friend took offence and accused the other one of calling all non asian babies ugly, quite frankly she's be told to give her head a wobble and stop being stupid. disclaimer none of my friends/anyone i know in rl would act like this

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 16:25

But its not even an aesthetic preference that makes sense, as their is such a vast range of different types of Asian babies.

If one of my friends said they thought Asian babies were cutest, they'd be asked what the fuck they were talking about.

ohidoliketobebesidethecoast · 30/03/2017 16:34

If one of my friends said they thought Asian babies were cutest, they'd be asked what the fuck they were talking about.
You sound a bit highly strung! From anyone, its just a daft, passing comment, the original bloke probably set out just to compliment someone on their baby. I struggle to see why anyone would need to swear at someone for making a daft comment.

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 16:45

We all swear a fucking lot , so what?

It doesn't compliment that baby, that is the entire point. It says that that baby is interchangeable with any other asian baby, even ones that don't look remotely the same as them.

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 30/03/2017 16:55

FFS, sometimes a comment is just a comment, nothing more. Face value. People make comments without hidden agenda or ulterior motive. It's the people who take offense who have the problem, not the person who made a completely innocent comment. When I say a baby is cute it's because I think the baby is cute, that's all. Nothing else. When my colleague said she only dates black men because they have big dicks she simply meant what she said. I'm 100% sure it never crossed her mind about black men historically being seen as animals and brutes because they're thought to have big dicks. Usually people just say things because they say them.

justnowords · 30/03/2017 17:04

Aethestic preferences dont have to make sense, its just an innate feeling that we have. I think asian babies are the cutest. I mean that in general. Sure there will probably be some not so cute asian babies, just as there are not so cute white babies, not so cute black babies etc (its seems mean saying that as tbf I think nearly all babies are cute and in 40 years can only say i saw 1 baby that I thought was not cute and im sure that baby was the absolute cutest to his mum tho) but I think asian (or if you're gonna be pernickity chinese) babies are the cutest. Ive not seen a baby which proves my personal preference wrong. Is it semantics? Do we need to spell it out so no one gets offended? Would i need to say 'I (my personal preference, not at all based in fact but just how I feel) think that asian (specifically chinese) babies are the cutest but I do not think that all other babies are ugly or less favourable to the world or worth less in any way, and that there are probably babies from the millions born around the world that I might not find as cute as I believe them to be, or cuter than asian (specifically chinese) babies (but until I see them I cant prove my feelings otherwise)." or you could assume that when people say they find asian babies the cutest that is most likely what they mean and they aren't arseholes --unless they have displayed openly racist remarks that couldnt be construed otherwise then crack on, they are probably racist assholes".

originalbiglymavis · 30/03/2017 17:12

I think that little Chinese girls when they have bunches (is it called 'paint brush'?) are the cutest thing. Well maybe not the absolute cutest but very cute indeed.

People would go mad over DSs huge chocolate curls when he was little - especially Asian tourists, who would ruffle his hair when he was in his pram and coo over him.

He used to clamp both arms over his was and tell 'nooooooo' at one stage when he would see a bus load of tourists coming his way. We live next to a park where lots of tourists come to see the trees and flowers.

ChrisYoungFuckingRocks · 30/03/2017 17:21

Thanks for the Flowers Fernanie. Here's a Wine for you (I assume you like wine as you're a woman 😂)

EnormousTiger · 30/03/2017 17:22

I think new babies with tons of black hair (Indian or Afro ones too) look really really cute. I don't think it's particularly racist to say so just as when I've taken my white blonde children abroad and locals have wanted photographs next to them it's not racist.

However you do have to be careful what you say at work these days. I very much doubt this man meant this is a racist way.

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 17:22

FFS, sometimes a comment is just a comment, nothing more. Face value

Yes, and the FACE VALUE of this is nonsensical and stereotypical.

Aethestic preferences dont have to make sense, its just an innate feeling that we have. I think asian babies are the cutest

I don't think you're following. It's not that aesthetic preference has to make sense, its that you can't group a whole lot of very different looking peoples intogether and call that your favourite. Asian covers such disparate nations as Iraqi, Pakistani, Japanese, Korean, Syrian, Mongolian, Israel.......how is it possible to say ALL of these are the "cutest"?

It's like talking to blank walls, it really is. Can no-one grasp the problem?

justnowords · 30/03/2017 17:37

So your gripe is that the man used the word Asian instead of being more specific (e.g. chinese/Japanese/ Korean etc). Then he is guilty of not being more specific, but crucially thats not racism. And perhaps when he says asian he means one of the above. Im chinese, I tell people I'm asian. I Dont expect them to get offended because im not more specific.

BoomBoomsCousin · 30/03/2017 17:37

You can make a comment without intending it to be oppressive, but that doesn't stop it from adding to the racism that people experience. And I don't simply mean the racism that people who are offended by the comment experience. I mean that it adds it's own tiny weight to our culture and social expectations, making sweeping statements based on race seem normal and OK. Making it easier for people to internalise values like Asian/Black/etc. people are x/y/z. And from those internalised values we get discrimination - sometimes externalised as "simply" an esthetic preference (which when it affects a culture as a whole becomes discrimination in other forms - from affecting who gets to represent different roles in media, to how much we trust people of different races) and sometimes as more direct racist values about how good we expect someone to be at a particular task.

One throwaway comment about babies is not a huge part of this. But it is one tiny part of it. IT is in part all these throwaway comments that mean even when we don't consciously want to discriminate, when we disagree with racism as a chosen value, we still manage to have different expectations of people based on race, including ourselves, that we don't even realise. And these different expectations affect our slightly, normally without us realising. And when that happens all the time, those slight differences in expectations can add up to big differences in life outcomes. This is a large part of racism in practice.

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 17:39

hen he is guilty of not being more specific, but crucially thats not racism. And perhaps when he says asian he means one of the above

It is, because what he is saying there is "all asian people look the same to me".
This shouldn't need explaining, its really obvious.

justnowords · 30/03/2017 17:44

It is, because what he is saying there is "all asian people look the same to me". No he's not saying that at all, your saying that. I think Asian babies are the cutest, but Im well aware that not all Asian babies look the same and I certainly dont mean that all Asian babies look the same. Your twisting the mans words to make it fit your racist criteria.

CaseyAtTheBat · 30/03/2017 17:49

The words don't need twisting, they just are.

Flipthebirdy · 30/03/2017 17:53

'I prefer not to date black men because I find them unattractive.'

'Black men are unattractive.'

I find these statements both offensive, the second one more so as it is worded as fact, rather than preference.

Even having a preference I just find strange (not necessarily racist) but I find it hard to grasp how you can write off a whole skin tone. There are attractive people of all races in my opinion. A pp said she doesn't like white skin because it reminds her of raw chicken or something stupid like that.

Atenco · 30/03/2017 17:54

, because what he is saying there is "all asian people look the same to me

I live in Mexico and think that Mexicans babies are by far the cutest, but there is no way that I find them indistinguishable.

JAPAB · 30/03/2017 17:58

The comment should never have been made precisely because some people will try to eke out whatever offensive meaning they can wring from something like this.

And it is all well and good thinking that they are overreacting, but they might still need to be appeased.

FWIW, assuming that "Well, Asian ones are by far the cutest" is all there is to it, then IMO neither racist nor offensive.