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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - no idea if this was racist?

288 replies

thisIsMyNewUserName · 29/03/2017 16:24

I'm narrowing myself down to a few hundred people (in theory) so want to be careful with identifying myself in real life.

Someone made a complaint about a colleague. During a meeting, babies were discussed. He said something like "Well, Asian ones are by far the cutest". Someone made a complaint and he has a meeting with HR next week about it. They suggested he contact a union rep should he wish as well as including a pdf of various policies within the company which I think points to bad news.

He's white, BTW. His wife is too and they've a 6 month old blonde-haired, blue-eyes daughter

I think he was at absolute worst a little immature but am interested in a consensus. AIBU thinking he should be given the benefit of the doubt? He's expecting to be hung, drawn and quartered.

OP posts:
SalemSaberhagen · 29/03/2017 22:47

It's PC gorn mad, isn't it Chris Hmm

I take it you've never experienced racism.

neverthetwainshallmeet · 29/03/2017 22:47

The definition of racism: "a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another."

So no, not racist. A sweeping generalisation? Yes.

KurriKurri · 29/03/2017 22:49

Even in the 1500's (and probably further back), people with red hair were seen to be unlucky. If they were the first ones to enter a house, that was considered extremely bad luck. Even today ginger kids get teased and bullied.

Not sure how this in any way refutes my comment. And what the hell is is a 'ginger kid' Hmm?

Gabilan · 29/03/2017 22:49

Chris I'm a redhead. I know what it's like to be bullied for the colour of my hair. But whilst red hair is more common in certain ethnic groups e.g. the Celts it doesn't IMO have the same history as racial discrimination. I think it stems from the same root - humans discriminate on superficial differences. But as a redhead, although I know what it's like to be spat on, kicked and punched I don't think I've ever lived through racism in the same way that someone black or Asian has.

CaseyAtTheBat · 29/03/2017 22:49

By that definition precisely (which is a bad one, but you picked it), then it IS racism.

Sophia1984 · 29/03/2017 22:50

Surely the person who said 'we all found it funny' was making assumptions? I asked if she could be sure, as some people would have been offended and others wouldn't - it's safest not to make unnecessary remarks like that. Just say the baby is gorgeous!

Bunkai · 29/03/2017 22:52

OP you wrote "he said something like...". What was the actual comment?

Also how HR handle it really depends on the complaint. If there was a conversation around that "Asian" comment then it's potentially more of an issue than one line depending on what was said. (I say potentially as I realise that one comment is enough to offend).

Flipthebirdy · 29/03/2017 22:59

Chris I agree. People are often all too loose with labelling everything as racism. However, the problem with allowing jokes to fly is that real racists then have an avenue to express their prejudiced views veiled as 'jokes.'
I don't feel the comment about Asian babies had any ill intent. I've said similar about Chinese babies. In hindsight it's just a stupid thing to say.

neverthetwainshallmeet · 29/03/2017 22:59

I think it's more an ignorant sweeping generalisation than racism Casey.

SalemSaberhagen · 29/03/2017 22:59

ChrisYoung's comment has really pissed me off. How dare you say that you think this racism 'thing' has been taken to the extreme? What gives you the right to say that? You, your children, your partner, will never understand how it feels. Piss off with your goady racism.

CaseyAtTheBat · 29/03/2017 22:59

Its not the intent that matters.

fernanie · 29/03/2017 23:19

I'd be interested to know how many commenters on this thread are white and how many are a different race. I'm non-white and am forever being told by white people that I should find this or that thing offensive.
Incidentally I've only ever found white men attractive. And I adore hairy babies (which tend not to be white). But I don't think that diminishes the inherent value of non-white men or bald babies in the slightest. All people can have equal worth without being equally aesthetically pleasing in everyone's eyes.
Also think the mixed or non-white kids being cuter thing is to do with novelty. Same as if you take a white child to a country where the majority are brown or black, everyone oohs and aahhs over them.

ChocAuVin · 29/03/2017 23:34

It's a definitively racist statement, and almost certainly well-meaning.

Life is complicated. :)

Italiangreyhound · 29/03/2017 23:46

Asmoto "Anyone of any race could dye their hair ginger!" What has that got to do with anything, at all? Go and Google Rachel Dolezal if you want to think about people changing their appearance!

KurriKurri "People with ginger hair have not been persecuted, enslaved and treated unequally for centuries." So heart breaking.

"The idea is that no stereotypes are good - people are people and they are all different." Indeed.

Personally, I do not think anyone has any responsibility to find anyone else attractive for any reason!

However, the idea a whole group of people as diverse as all black men or all people from Asia, are all attractive as babies or all attractive as men, or are all unattractive, etc. is just laughable and it is offensive.

And maybe some Asian people will not find it offensive, and maybe some will. Some may speak up, some may not. As a woman I've certainly not always felt able to speak up when people say something offensive.

Of course we don't all get the right not to be offended ever, but hopefully in the workplace we can expect people not to come up with opinions based on racial stereotypes.

SarcasmMode · 29/03/2017 23:50

Not racist really moreso stereotypical.

Surely if something is racist it doesn't matter who says it?

So if I say all white people are bad dancers I'd still be being racist as a white personal myself?

Asmoto · 30/03/2017 00:03

Italian - Perhaps you missed the post to which I was responding?

Italiangreyhound · 30/03/2017 00:04

fernanie "I'd be interested to know how many commenters on this thread are white and how many are a different race."

I'm white.

fernanie " I'm non-white and am forever being told by white people that I should find this or that thing offensive."

I would never want to tell you what you should or should not find offensive. That's up to you. But I don't believe the workplace is somewhere that should tolerate racial stereotypes, be they 'positive' or 'negative' ones.

Gabilan "...as a redhead, although I know what it's like to be spat on, kicked and punched I don't think I've ever lived through racism in the same way that someone black or Asian has."

Maybe not but I expect there are Asian and black children and adults who have not experienced what you have.

I think any abuse for any reason is totally wrong and I think the abuse red haired people experience is very much like racial abuse. So even if it is not exactly the same it is equally as valid.

Is there any difference in being violently prejudiced against people based on hair colour as opposed to skin colour?

And we know that some abuse is ethic abuse from people from one racial group abuse those from the same racial group but with different ethnicites.

So the exact reasons why people abuse each other are a factor, but, IMHO, just as important is the lived experiences. I guess I am saying you don't need to try and 'down play' your own experiences, they are as valid as any.

And all prejudice is wrong.

Italiangreyhound · 30/03/2017 00:05

Asmoto "Italian - Perhaps you missed the post to which I was responding?" Maybe I did, I will look back, sorry, have I misunderstood you? I do do that sometimes! Apologies.

Italiangreyhound · 30/03/2017 00:12

Asmoto Did you mean Summerisdone's comment? I saw that. Sorry I am not sure what I have misinterpreted. I do think people with naturally red hair receive prejudice and their hair colour is based on genes, just like skin colour is, but I recognise it does not make them 'a race'. I don't see it's related to the fact people could dye their hair.

Asmoto · 30/03/2017 00:18

Summer was asking if dying her hair (ginger) made her prejudiced - I was pointing out that people of all races can, and do, dye their hair any colour they want, so dying hair is not relevant to the issue of racial prejudice (in my view).

user1490828037 · 30/03/2017 00:21

"Someone made a complaint about a colleague"

There is the root of the problem. How absolutely dreadful.

Did this 'someone' have the courage, honesty or just plain decency to talk to the person involved? From what you say, no. They 'made a complaint'. Shoddy, shallow and worthless individual indeed.

Racist is irrelevant in this context. It is utter cowardice which is the crux.

Italiangreyhound · 30/03/2017 00:26

Asmoto "Summer was asking if dying her hair (ginger) made her prejudiced - I was pointing out that people of all races can, and do, dye their hair any colour they want, so dying hair is not relevant to the issue of racial prejudice (in my view)."

Ah OK, sorry I was responding to the bit where she was talking about ginger babies.

Apologies for misunderstanding you.

Asmoto · 30/03/2017 00:28

user I don't think it's possible to make an assessment of cowardice based on the limited information in the OP's post. Without knowing anything of the dynamics of the OP's workplace or the respective positions of those involved in the hierarchy, it's impossible to say that the complainant could reasonably have been expected to approach the colleague directly.

Asmoto · 30/03/2017 00:30

No problem, Italian - in hindsight, I don't think it was the clearest post I've ever made!

Italiangreyhound · 30/03/2017 00:30

user1490828037 "Did this 'someone' have the courage, honesty or just plain decency to talk to the person involved? From what you say, no. They 'made a complaint'. Shoddy, shallow and worthless individual indeed."

I don't think complaining anonymously about a comment is shoddy at all.

If the person was not doing anything wrong then they can defend themselves.

"It is utter cowardice which is the crux" I don't see this at all. People should be free to anonymously make complaints. Otherwise those who are deemed 'popular' or 'important' in an organisation would be untouchable as no one would feel able to say anything.

I do think the response to the comment has been over the top but I don't think anonymous complaint procedures are cowardly.