AIBU - no idea if this was racist?

[thisIsMyNewUserName]

I'm narrowing myself down to a few hundred people (in theory) so want to be careful with identifying myself in real life.

Someone made a complaint about a colleague. During a meeting, babies were discussed. He said something like "Well, Asian ones are by far the cutest". Someone made a complaint and he has a meeting with HR next week about it. They suggested he contact a union rep should he wish as well as including a pdf of various policies within the company which I think points to bad news.

He's white, BTW. His wife is too and they've a 6 month old blonde-haired, blue-eyes daughter

I think he was at absolute worst a little immature but am interested in a consensus. AIBU thinking he should be given the benefit of the doubt? He's expecting to be hung, drawn and quartered.

I don't think it's in appropriate or rasist.
Have people got nothing better to do?
Why is it racist to say Asian babies are cute!?

He says that white people are easier to photograph and make for a better picture than black people.
It's all to do with lighting apparently.

That's true Brick. I can tell you that during a mixed race wedding, it's an absolute nightmare as far as lighting is concerned. If the black bride is wearing a white dress, and the white man is wearing a black suit, it's almost impossible to the the exposure right. If you expose for the blacks then the whites are blown out. If you expose for the whites, then the blacks are so dark you won't see the bride's face. That's not racist, it's just a practical fact.

I think it is racist and also inappropriate to comment on in the work place. BUT - it isn't a hanging offence. Just something that would best be avoided in the future.

A re-education by HR training courses at worst, but probably just a verbal 'this is way office banter is always a bad idea no matter how inoffensive you think you are being' warning.

Just because he has been told he can have a representative, doesn't mean it is going to be job on the line time. You can have a representative from the union any time HR want to talk to you about anything around here.

Dancing I think 'cute' is a demeaning term when applied as a generalisation to a race, and some people might be hurt by that.

You might have a baby that wasn't in the slightest bit cute, but was very intelligent, and be proud of how advanced the baby was - would you want your unattractive child-prodigy lumped into a 'cute Asian baby' category, or would you prefer him/her to be recognised as an individual?

ChrisYoung, as a mother of a black child your comment annoys me. My DD is black with lovely long afro hair and the amount of times i get told "she's beautiful....is she mixed race?" is infuriating!

It's like little black girls can't have long hair unless mixed with something.

So silly!

chris it is a practical fact that is due to racism on the part of film manufacturers or possible camera makers though.

The dynamic range of film is not set in stone, you could choose other parameters that would make for better photography of people with dark skin, but guess who wasn't of interest to the original developers of the technology?

brickinitIam, very few on Mumsnet will understand that this is racist.

you comments on asking if it's racist to if you say all white babies are cute have been pretty much ignored.

My contribution would be the old quote 'Every little baby is the sweetest and the best.'

ChrisYoung, then surely it's truer to say you love photographing babies with lovely skin tones? If you get a sallow bat-eared colicky mixed race baby whose proud parents are expecting you to make look cute I'm sure you don't feel the same way just because they're mixed race, do you?

It's just easier to say 'mixed race babies are...'. It's simpler for you. And it's that laziness applied to whole categories of people which is racist.

It was a silly thing to say and I would judge him, and expect him to be told it's not appropriate at work, but not fired unless part of a wider pattern of being a dick.

Weird exoticising 'compliments' are not always as charming as those giving them usually think. Like a PP, I was also told during pregnancy that my child would be beautiful because they would be mixed race. It's a fucking weird dehumanising generalisation to make.

I don't find it the slightest bit racist. He was just stating a preference. The same way that I wouldn't have thought it racist if someone said that they thought blue eyed blond haired European babies were the cutest. Although no doubt someone somewhere would. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that some people look for things to be offended by, usually on someone else's behalf.

Jesus, are you actually serious?

Yes I am being serious - you seem to be struggling with the concept of racism - stereotyping people because of their race. Saying all people of that race are the same is racist. In this instance it was babies.

But it could have been children or adults.

'Particular race children or adults are better looking than other race children'.
'Particular race person is more intelligent than other race person'
Particular race women are better mothers than other race women'
Particular race people work harder than other race people'

This sort of thing could be classed as positive, but it is also racist.

Saying you find 'black men attractive' is racist. Because it implies all black men look the same. Do you say you find 'white men attractive' ? Is Michael Gove as attractive as Aiden Turner or whatever ? Probably you would prefer one to the other. But it seems that saying black men are attractive is OK ? It is supposedly positive - but it is also patronising and stupid.
I find Lenny Henry an attractive man, I don't get the Idris Elba love. that's my personal preference between those two people who happen to be black.
It's a question of looking at people as individuals regardless of their race.

People are confused here because
a) It was an apparently 'nice' thing to say (although in fact it is patronising and suggests all Asian babies look the same)
b) It was about babies and hey babies are cute how can it possibly be bad to say babies are cute (even if you single out a particular race of baby and make a statement which stereotypes them)

Why do people class others who think more carefully than them as stupid or 'arses' ? Hardly an intelligent way to go about making your point.

Oh and no need to call me Jesus.

.

would you want your unattractive child-prodigy lumped into a 'cute Asian baby' category, or would you prefer him/her to be recognised as an individual?

Personally it wouldn't bother me either way. Although how advanced a baby appears to be is generally in the eyes of the doting parents. Or maybe my precious children just weren't that advanced as babies. Great at pooing, weeing, eating and staying up all night though. Certainly no indicators at that early stage that they were child prodigies thats for sure.

I work in HR and I wouldn't see this as a racist issue. It's insensitive, and I'd recommend a serious discussion on appropriate workplace conversation, but not any formal action.

I think a good test would be to ask an Asian person would they find that comment racist. I expect they would wholeheartedly agree that yes they are the cutest and so No, I don't find that remark racist.

Why the hell is it racist? Is it offensive because we're not allowed to mention anyone's race anymore? Or is it offensive because it's racist to any baby who isn't Asian because he might think they're not as cute?

Asia's a large continent inhabited by people of many different ethnicities. The comment lumps them all together for a start. As pp have said it's in the realm of "they all look the same to me". Sure, there are far, far worse things that can be said but IMO it demonstrates a lack of thought and awareness. I wouldn't want to get him into trouble for it but since someone's complained I think HR should send him for awareness training.

Either you are or you're not no?

I'd say there are degrees. Some people are hate filled enough to kill based on race. Others make nasty comments about "too many Poles". Then most/ many will pick up an unconscious bias and for e.g. judge someone's CV more harshly because the name sounds as if the person is of African origin. They're not deliberately intending to be racist but the effect reinforces racist structures.

I've been reading with interest.

I'm an outsider and on the fence, erring towards, leave him alone. My children are beyond the cute baby stage (both at prep school). I wouldn't have complained. I can think of meetings at my company where these type of conversations (nothing to do with work) would be entirely appropriate and can understand where x baby is cuter than y could come up (x and y not being races).

I cans ee why a black parent (for example) or white could be offended. HR are on to him because of a complaint as opposed to off thier own back. He may have nothing but a brief verbal warning or reminder but, as I said, he's worried.

Like a poster earlier said, positive stereotyping can be harmful.

I'm quite pleased to see the majority don't expect serious concequences. I don't know him well but from what I do know, he doesn't deserve to be fired.

It's an inappropriate generalization by race. It's positive about asian babies, but the unspoken corollary is negative about babies of other races. Just as comments about how Asian people are all good at maths or something is a positive statement itself, but its meaning is negative towards others.

I think it meets the current legal definition of racism, which pretty much relies solely on discrimination on the basis of race. But I think a truer definition includes oppression and discrimination and I think a comment simply about a baby looking cute misses on that score, though there may be a bigger issue about how our ideas of what are "cute" are formed by racist media and this comment reinforces those cultural messages.

ChrisYoung, as a mother of a black child your comment annoys me. MT I'm sorry, I meant no offense. I also didn't say all mixed race babies, I said they often have lovely skin tones. Both my DTDs (white) best friends are black. The one has lovely long afro hair. She's beautiful, not because she's black, but simply because she's a beautiful girl.

Morphene - it has nothing to do with racism on the part of the manufacturers . It has everything to do with light, and the way it reflects off different surfaces. I have photographed plenty of black people, and it works out just fine. But if you have a very dark person wearing white, the white reflects light and the black absorbs light. It's a fact of nature and science.

It's possibly inappropriate at work depending on context - maybe ok if a bit of chitchat in a small group, probably not ok if a large meeting full of paediatricians?

I don't think it's racist though.

Im asian. Dont find it offensive. In fact I'd agree with it . In fact it is something we have discussed in our office. Most of us agreed. The ones that didnt agree werent treated with scorn. Know why. Because its all subjective and personal opinion. And we are adult enough/not stupid to realise that its not racist. When others said they didnt think that asian babies were the cutest, I didnt think the racist bastards, they think all asian babies are ugly and inferior. As an aside I also think hairy babies are cutest too. No too keen on the bald ones. Is that baldist?

Oh yes I like hairy babies too. My bad.

Not racist at all. Some Asian babies are cute; some not so cute. The same as some white babies are cute and some could only look cute to their families. Why do people seem to enjoy being offended these days?

Not racist at all. Some Asian babies are cute; some not so cute

Your second sentence is exactly why your first sentence is wrong.

There is also the problem of lumping in many different ethnicities into the umbrella of "Asian". Are you saying that Korean babies are the same as Indian babies, and both are the cutest? That makes no sense, does it?
No, because you're not acknowledging the vast differentiation of "asian", and that is racist.