To hate women being called girls?

[skerrywind]

My mother does it constantly. She will talk of the "girl" who served her at the bank.

My niece shared this video which is great

claraschu

That's a reasonable point - more than anything else, i would consider referring to anyone i didn't know as a 'girl' as simple rudeness, and wouldn't do it.

With someone i was familiar/friendly with, it would be different. Context is everything.

I really dislike this. I've read a lot of thrillers recently, mostly by female authors and the use of the word "girl" in them is utterly staggering.

"Four girls have now been murdered" - the "girls" in question were all professional women and 2 were mothers.

Consider these bestsellers: Girl on a train (she was a woman) Gone Girl (again, a woman) etc.

Also I'm a bit agog at those who say they are well into their 20's or 30ish and feel too young to be a woman . Just shows how dangerous and insidious this infantilising crap is; that adult females want to be described as children, and that being a woman should be thought of as a negative thing.

I don't want to be thought of as a child Littledidsheknow. I'm pretty sure nobody here does but is it really surprising some people are flattered by a word associated with being youthful? I don't see the problem. In actual fact I just think I prefer it as it sounds less formal. Same as with men I'd call him a man or a guy or a lad. No wonder people don't talk to each other as much these days, it's a flaming minefield trying not to be offensive.

There's a manager at work who sometimes addresses his all male team as girls. Is it meaningless when he does that, or an indication of what he really thinks about women? (This is far from the only evidence that he's a misogynistic arsehole, which is probably no surprise.)

Men would consider calling a woman "one of the lads" a compliment. There are no circumstances in which calling a man anything remotely feminine is a compliment.

Men would consider calling a woman "one of the lads" a compliment. There are no circumstances in which calling a man anything remotely feminine is a compliment.

I don't think many men would consider calling a woman masculine is a compliment.

Just shows how dangerous and insidious this infantilising crap

Girl on a Train and Gone Girl are dangerous?

Mars- maybe read my post again?

I started a new job and overheard someone ask my boss "who is the new woman?" about me. Sounded really harsh.

Why on earth did that sound "harsh"? Would "who's the new man?" have sounded harsh?

I don't think I missed anything there Bertrand. You're saying that calling a woman 'one of the lads' is a compliment but vice versa isn't.

I don't think men would consider this a compliment. A gay man I know fits every stereotype you can imagine and includes himself in 'one of the girls' references.

I see a difference between inclusion (one of the lads) and 'feminine' - an adjective to describe someone's appearance or personality.

I'm sure you'll tell me it's social conditioning or somesuch but I do think there are genetic masculine and feminine traits and no one wants to be labelled with either incorrectly. We do all like to feel inclusion and included though.

It's slightly better than the awful unisex 'Guys', which I hate with a passion I can't really explain.

Me too. It's awful. I don't care how much anyone protests it's neutral. I am not a guy.

I started a new job and overheard someone ask my boss "who is the new woman?" about me. Sounded really harsh

I think referring to "the new boy" or the new girl" is pretty unremarkable.

I would not take it as a compliment to be called one of the lads

JamesDelaneysHat

I hate the 'guys' thing because it sounds cheesy and reminds me of Cliff Richard. Or someone over-enthusiastic and ingratitiating. That's why. I know it makes me a misanthrope but there you go

I'd much rather be a misanthropy than a guy.

About to hit 40 and more than happy to get called a girl!

Even some of the male examples given show how calling men boys is used in a similar way to calling women girls, it is used for those whose skills aren't recognised as important because they are doing the actual work without which the business wouldn't survive instead of wandering round with a white shirt and tie on being VERY VERY important.

The boys in the shed, the girls in the office. What is this, the 1950s? It's demeaning. As for a manger calling his all male team girls, WTAF?!

Men would consider calling a woman "one of the lads" a compliment. There are no circumstances in which calling a man anything remotely feminine is a compliment.

I don't think many men would consider calling a woman masculine is a compliment.

Oh, I've been described as "one of the lads" by more than one team, and they meant it as, "you're one of us." You have to be a token male to be included, though - you can't be seen as an actual woman any more. One of the contexts it came up in is when I pulled them up on objectifying a new female colleague in another department - "oh, you don't count, you're one of us." That still doesn't make it okay to talk about other women as they were.

I hate "ladies" too.

A female is a girl when at school, a woman if they are older, in my book.

I like the use of "guys", though. It's friendly and relaxed.

I like the use of "guys", though. It's friendly and relaxed

Or over- friendly and ingratitiating. It sets my teeth on edge. I don't warm to anyone who calls me "guy". I might be a misanthrope but I am definitely not a guy.

The reason I don'5!like guys is that once again something which is supposed to be unisex is just using male stuff for women.

Can you imagine men being happy to take on a feminine collective noun? Happy to be called "ladies" because they know it means women and men?

#manwhohasitall is excellent on this.

At 23 I had to go in to hospital and the junior Dr doing his rounds with a senior registrar/consultant spoke about me in the following terms:

"This girl has come in with suspected (insert lots of confusing medical terms here)."

This GIRL. THIS. Girl. God it pissed me off so much. I felt very diminished and affronted by the fact he couldn't refer to me as "this lady", or better yet actually introduced me to his colleague and spoken to me like I mattered as opposed to like I wasn't in the room. I hate being called "girl", I'm not a child.

Girl on a Train and Gone Girl are dangerous?

Er, I never said that, Mars . You've taken two separate parts of my comment and hashed them together for some reason.

I was talking about how the persistent use of 'girl' has made women consider the word "woman" as a negative thing and would sooner be called a girl. At 30.

The persistent infantilisation of women does none of us any favours, nor helps us be taken seriously.

*some women

I have spent many years studying martial arts. I am the only woman in my club at my level of seniority.

The men that I train with regard it as somewhat of a compliment to tell me I am 'one of the lads' or 'one of the guys'. I see why they think that, and that it is well intentioned, so I usually just crack something along the lines 'cept the ovaries, eh?!' which isn't really a joke, I'm just saying it like it's a joke, and they laugh along, and we all elbow each other and say things like, 'heh, heh, heh!' These slightly ridiculous exchanges come about when someone has made some dubious joke about 'five finger technique' or whatever, which is, just to be clear, an innuendo and not something to do with the actual martial art. Such discussions usually happen in social situations.

The real reason that I make the response I do is partially because I like to remind them that that female bodied people can 'do' martial arts, have that same identity as them, that same experience, which quite often people think of as a masculine right of passage. More importantly, though, it's worth subtley reminding them that they can have relationships with female bodied people based on who they are and what they are like, rather than on the fact they are female bodied and should therefore be considered for these kinds of relationships but not those ones. I'm trying to say, 'no, this is not 'guyness' we are sharing, because I'm not a guy, what we are having is a relationship - we're relating to each other and it's not because 'we're all guys here!'

What effect this has on anyone is probably limited. But I do prefer to insist that I am female bodied rather than accept the 'one of the guys' mantle. I'd rather not be explained away as an anomaly or as an exception, which is what 'one of the guys' actually tries to assert. But I don't think that offering me the option to be 'one of the guys' is actually that respectful, I think it is a way of coming to terms with the fact that I am not in fact a male, but here anyway. So are 'the guys' wrong about what they assume women are in relation to 'the guys'? Or is she just some misfit that leaves the overall order of things undisturbed? I support the former position, so always assert my femaleness in some way when this comes up.

You didn't say "does none of us any favours". You said it was dangerous and I don't for a second see how it can be.

I wouldn't want to be called a girl at work but as I said earlier, I would talk about a night with the girls or a girls-night.

I was talking about how the persistent use of 'girl' has made women consider the word "woman" as a negative thing and would sooner be called a girl.

This would make sense if women didn't want a feminine word used but that isn't what's happening. It's swapping one feminine word for another. It's to do with youth. I lived in America for a little while and remember when I started being called ma'am. I would have far preferred to keep being miss. I see the girl/woman in the same way.

As a slight aside, I think 'woman' sounds like quite an ugly word. Lady is much nicer sounding but that's the same with most Germanic words I guess.

I still don't see any danger anywhere and think this is all about being hung up on ridiculously small details. The OP wasn't even talking about how she liked to be addressed. She was moaning about her mother talking about someone else.