School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

And why do parents want their kids rewarded for things they find easy? My dd would be as perplexed to be given a reward for sitting still on the carpet as she would to be given one for breathing. The key is to reward all children for trying at things they find hard to encourage improvement. For a child with Adhd that might be something as normal and expected as sitting for a few minutes. For a child who struggles with maths effort there might be rewarded. For a child who's good at everything they might be rewarded for excelling even by their standard. If you feel your child isn't being rewarded for their efforts then speak up. But don't expect them to be rewarded for things they find easy.

So, children never deliberately misbehave?

Of course they do. Challenging children can make many foolish or selfish decisions. The point of the smiley is to encourage them to make sensible decisions. And the point of not taking the party away is so that one wrong decision at the end of the week doesn't wipe out twelve smileys' worth of good decisions. Otherwise how motivated is that child going to be to get any smileys at all next week?

Thank you all for your inputs I didn't mean to offend anyone but just wanted opinions and I certainly got a lot of insight from different perspectives

I am going to add this - DS was a good kid - however there were plenty of naughty children in his class - the teacher cancelled trips and golden time for the whole class of those non behaving children didn't meet targets!

This is a good point. DC school used to do either table or class points being the deciding factor on Golden Time etc. They would rarely meet the threshold and it was quite a demotivating system for all. They've changed things around and it really has had a noticeable positive response.

I (and many others) took my child away from a school like this, that won an award for 'inclusion' of naughty children, but infact excluded all the good kids.

I have a "naughty" child , now in a "naughty" school. She has complex LDs, ADHD and A developmental delay. School induces fear as she is always "the bottom" of the class , she has been physically sick before school, once there if she makes mistakes she has complete meltdowns. Do you think she enjoys that? Do you think she'd rather be a "normal" child who can do their work without a TA explaining multiple times and still not understanding , seeing the "good" kids sniggering. Maybe tell your son to mind his own business and stop talking with him about the "naughty" ones , explain that things are very tough for them and he should be glad he doesn't struggle.

Also my dd hated having any special treat and refused this, she just wanted to feel like the rest of the class and hated being singled out.

elodie2000 yes, most kids do misbehave on purpose at times! But, children labled as naughty by others, who seem to receive more recognition for any positive behaviour (smilies) and who are taken from class each week for a 'tea party' are more than likely to have additional needs. I work in a school so have some experience and first hand knowledge of this. So yes, I stand by my original comment that these children are not 'naughty' they probably have ADHD or are in the autistic spectrum.

Not quite sure why there is this assumption on here that the "good" children are all rewarded anyway, with happy schooldays, and a successful future. A quiet, well-behaved child can be desperately unhappy at school and home, and be facing a far from easy future. I remember watching a little parade of children going to the front in assembly to receive special certificates at a school I was helping in. A little girl next to me whispered despondently "It's always the naughty ones, isn't it, Miss?" And she was right.

This is differentiation. Well said corythatwas.

One of mine has SN but not involving challenging behaviour. They have ended up in hospital more than once due to other SN kids with whom they were grouped physically injuring them. Never mind not getting rewards. Still I have all the sympathy in the world for those who have to manage these ' naughty' children, parents especially.

They probably still got to go to the tea as they had got the 12 smilies. Even if there was an insistent it isn't good practice to remove the reward for the good behaviour if they have hit the target. The insistent should be delt with separately.

I think what people are classing as 'good kids' being excluded is parents being annoyed about their children not being rewarded for doing absolutely nothing. Encourage your child to go above and beyond and it will usually be noticed. Don't encourage them to feel aggrieved that they don't get a pat on the head for sitting still for eg when they are fortunate enough to have been born with a typically wired brain and into a supportive family that have enabled them to be able to behave in a typical way. That is a MUCH bigger reward. Unless you would prefer your child to have a higher chance of underachieving at school, being bullied, suffering mental health problems and entering the criminal justice system along with their smiley face sticker. Step back and take a look at what you're actually doing. You're encouraging your child to be resentful of what is possibly the only time a disadvantaged child looks forward to that week.

And it is very rare that a child who was desperately unhappy at home would not have any social/behavioural issues at school.

Do people genuinely think that a child who can sit on the carpet for 20 minutes as easily as breathing is deserving of the same level of praise/reward as a child with a disability who usually struggles to sit for 5 mins but with a massive amount of effort and self control manages 15?

Unfortunately poo they do

Lack of understanding is highly apparent on this thread. But I suppose it I'd just a snapshot of the ignorance out children will have to deal with throughout their lives. As if they haven't got enough to deal with already

I don't think many on the parents here truly understand how fucking heartbreaking it is to see your child struggle so hard to do what comes to others naturally. To have them sobbing asking why they can't "just be normal" to see them struggle to make any proper friends. To know as they grow that more than likely they will end up will mental health issues.

Let them have the bloody smiley face stickers and a fake tea party ffs

The tea party will an activity designed to build social skills and will be a few crisps and biscuits with an emphasis on sitting nicely, sharing, turn taking etc.
If people feel their 'good' child's achievements are not being acknowledged, they can raise that with the school but that is a separate issue.
As far as the 'real world' comments - my child who was a mainstream child at that age will never experience the real world.

My older child would never get praised for sitting still as she doesn't have to try! She also gets 10/10 in her spellings every week with very little practice and I know others are rewarded for getting less but they have to try harder to get 8 or 9. Rather than resenting awards she recognises she's pretty lucky that spelling comes easily to her. She does get rewards for particularly good homework. But not just good homework. Stuff she's gone above and beyond with. That's how it should be.

You and your son have no idea of the issues or backgrounds of these "naughty" kids.
If you knew what was going on in the home life of some of my most challenging pupils, you might have a little more understanding and compassion.

Fair is not always equal

Perhaps remind your son how many friends he has and how many out of school parties he is invited to. These are rewards that my ds (with an ASC) does not have. Seems a shame to begrudge him in school rewards to improve his behaviour particularly as it is of benefit to the whole class if he does not disrupt their learning

The 'naughty' children may not be getting enough sleep, with phones, TVs and tablets being on until late. Recent studies have shown that a blue light coming from phones and tablets prevent the brain from falling asleep properly. The devices need to be off one hour before sleep time.

Or maybe... just maybe... they don't get enough sleep because they are terrified that, when they nod off, they're going to get hauled from their beds and made to do things that is the literal stuff of nightmares?

Not just the post above but the implicit parent blaming that inevitably goes on with these types of threads is depressing....

Part of behaviour management is to change behaviour. This is so complex and much more than a 'tea party'. As others have said this won't be just a tea party and will also be part of a much bigger and planned intervention through behaviour mapping.
Disruptive children feed on attention, it doesn't have to be positive attention any attention is better than none; the ' none' that the child experiences in the chaotic home. Positive rewards are carefully planned to help the child achieve. Positive rewards and comments are to break the need for attention even if this is through the negative. This is a slow and careful process to change a child's behaviour.

That's a good point. If the kids have very difficult behaviour they probably aren't invited to parties so a tea party at school with a Ta will be the nearest they'll get.

I think it's also worth baring in mind that any child, even one of the 'good' ones could become a naughty child. Any child could be abused, suffer a life changing brain injury, have a parent die or any other number of things that could effect their behaviour in school. Think about how you would you want your child to be treated in any of those circumstances.