School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

obama some of those children will never end up in the real world.
Those options are never going to be there.
I think if you've never worked in a school ( or supported a severely challenged child) one must imagine there are lots of 'Billy Bunter' type characters- just high jinx and choosing to misbehave.
It isn't like that.

The ignorance showing on this thread is really sad

And I actually agree that adequate support, in the moment, for children who struggle to meet behaviour expectations would be much better than trying to motivate through rewards. But it is also a lot more expensive.

I think that too much behavioural management is based on reward- smileys or similar for doing things that are more or less expected. It definitely creates a bad feeling in the class and as someone mentioned above, it's the children who normally fall in the middle who lose out.
Gathering to make sure they discuss their behaviour with other teachers and kids - great. Actual tea party - rubbish idea and as a child in that class I would feel incredibly resentful.

My son has ADHD. We actually work with his teacher so if he gets 6 smiley faces a day he gets a reward at home, so it's slightly different. However, it is really, really hard for my son to sit still in assembly, to write a lot in English, or to listen to complicated instructions for example. He is trying so, so hard and he is (rightly) very proud of his efforts. His teacher and TA are supportive and frankly I couldn't give a shit what some of the parents might think about him having special treatment.

My older son is a 'good' boy and he understands that some things are harder for other children. It's not a difficult message to teach your kids - why don't you have a chat with your son about it?

My DS is adopted.

He had the most horrendous experience with his birth family before he came into care. As a result, he is well behind his peers at school, finds school very difficult, has very poor attention (is about to be assessed for ADD), often refuses to work because things are just too difficult for him. He shuts down when presented with a task that he perceives as being too hard.

As the added kicker, he has a deeply inbuilt sense of shame resulting from his early experiences with his primary care giver. This means that he feels it's his fault when he can't do things like concentrate and listen. He feels, very deeply, that he is a bad person who is no good at anything and never will be.

Now... what 'discipline' method do you think would be better...

Breaking things down into tiny steps where he has a chance of achieving and rewarding him as a result (something along the lines of 12 smiley stickers a week with a reward at the end that may be given even if he doesn't quite manage to achieve all 12)

Or the humiliating, total shame inducing (for him) experience of being moved down to red on the class reward chart week after week because he literally cannot do the things that most of the other kids completely take for granted???

The ignorance around disability and childhood trauma and resultant behaviour on these threads all to often comes from people who work with children which is a big part of the problem imo. If teaching staff were better trained and resourced to deal with the conditions they now frequently encounter in mainstream schools half of these carrot and stick methods would be completely unnecessary.

Some staff use reactive strategies. Instead of taking a proactive stance.
If everyone had the time and money invested in this issue- the school day might just run a little smoother.
For all students.

Badly behaved children are not happy children. Children do not act to upset others out of innate malice or because they enjoy it. These children are in pain and need help. Explain this to your DC.

These children need the help and support of 'the village' around them. They do not needs tuts and sidelong glances from disapproving parents.

"Everyone has things that come easily to them and things they have to work really hard at. Behaving in xyz way comes quite easily to you but for Peter and Jane maybe they have to work a LOT harder at it and still don't manage to do it all the time. They are getting these rewards now, but it won't be forever, just like you had a sticker chart when you were learning to do xyz, and then stopped."

I'm not going to reply to individuals on this topic. I have stated my opinion. It comes from my experience and long-term thinking about the issue, in the context of my deep concern for the children I teach. Whether or not others disagree, I am not about to change what I think so it's not worth engaging with people who - as, sadly, is often the case on MN - insist that their opinion is the only valid one and everyone else is speaking from ignorance/malice.

I have 3 children
DS1 who has ASD and although well behaved at school struggles socially. He goes to a 'special club' instead of assembly once in a while and ion his own words 'it really helps me to read people's faces and understand what people expect in certain situations' I imagine this teaclub is something similar and the 2 good children are chosen to model the expected behaviour.
DD is NT and very helpful and well behaved at school, she is often paired up with the 'naughty' children. I can see the schools point as they like to pair up a good child to help a naughty child and it does benefit the naughty child but the last child DD was paired up with caused great anxiety for her as he wouldn't concentrate and messed around and she was very stressed that he wasn't concentrating on thier work and getting her in trouble. I did go in and speak to her teachers as I felt it wasn't fair to put an 8 year old in that position.
DS2 is a 'naughty child' struggles with impulse control and concentration. He's 6 so fairly typical for boys his age and rewards do work better for him than punishments.
So I can see it from all sides and sometimes you just have to understand your child can't be involved in everything

Totally agree with you poo
I'm actually sick and tired of witnessing the rubbish support given to some children.

It is very difficult to manage a classroom with disruptive children in .
Gone are the days when teachers had absolute authority to do whatever fabulous saw fit.
Gone are the days of specialist schools for ' naughty' children.
Now schools are inclusive and staff have to deal with that.
The system has to be manageable by all who work there.
I'm not saying this system is good or bad, just that the staff have to do something.
Challenging behaviour is regarded as a disability, a barrier to learning
The dame way that say being hard of hearing is.
In this case the school would have to find ways of dealing with the challenge.
Sometimes your child will not be privy to conversations had between the children and staff and won't necessarily be aware of the finer details of the children's targets.
Having said that if such behaviour is not improving, then the reward system is not working.
The aim should be to eventually not need a tea party for the children to meet the expected behaviour standards.

Pugwash
You have every right to comment on another childs behaviour when it is effecting your child. It's really hard for children to understand and I have my children asking the same thing. It's absolute crap to suggest that
"The 'good' children are rewarded with happy school days, good friendships, good grades, future success and generally every chance of a happy life"
Just because they are good, does not mean they are happy!! Have a chat to your child and explain that you will reward them for their good behaviour

Well a lot of people on here clearly think that kids with disabilities or those who have experienced trauma should be punished rather than encouraged so that their kids don't get jealous. So who are the 'special snowflakes' exactly?

OhyesIam I find this wording a bit sad nasty boys got much much nicer, much less menacing. My 7 year old has autism and might at times appear nasty or menacing to people who don't understand but it's only when he's placed under pressure and can't cope. The real him is a kind, helpful, funny boy. At my child's school there are two types of parent - the understanding & accepting ones - and the ones who are quick to judge and to write off a small child.

These threads are always the same.

There's always at least one poster who says "well, maybe they don't have SEN. Maybe they're just naughty."

Perhaps that's true. But personally, I would rather err on the side of acknowledging that it COULD be SEN and if there's a chance it is, then why on earth would I begrudge a child who will face so many complex challenges in his whole life, a certificate or a little tea party?

And I hope my dc have the same level of compassion and understanding.

Can you imagine how difficult every day life is when you're just 'different' in some way? The challenges that just don't exist for NT people.

OP, I think at 8, your ds is old enough to understand that people have different challenges and different ways of functioning and doing things, so rather than concentrate on who is being rewarded, he should focus on his work, his friendships, and enjoying his school day in a way that he thankfully can.

This is my DS2. He's 'naughty' too. He gets rewarded for good behaviour by getting computer time. Only one other boy in his class gets that luxury. He is also 'naughty'

Except, as a pp said - problems are a bit deeper than that.

Firstly these children are not 'naughty' they probably have ADHD or are on the autistic spectrum.

Maybe the op would prefer it if the tea party where children go to receive help with social skills was given a less appealing name so that her child felt better about it?
A friend of mine has a child with a physical disability who is taken out of lessons to do physio. Obviously this is made into fun games for the child to make it less of the chore and some of the other children want to go and feel hard done by. So their parents explain to them that it's much better to have full use of limbs! It's not hard to explain disability to a child whether it's visible or not. And it's very poor parenting to encourage children to feel jealous of others who need extra help imo.

What do you define as the real world? The real world is life. I've worked in a young offenders institution and sadly these are usually full of these kids. Once they reach a certain age the tea parties and smiley faces just stop. They are high and dry and sadly most have not been gradually given the paddle so they are well and truly up shit Creek. It is very very sad and once you've experienced it it is very difficult to look at the tea parties and smiley faces in a positive way, they are usually just the schools way of making their own lives bearable while these children are there. Without any emphasis on what will happen next. It's not their problem and most parents are learning as they go along. I've worked with special needs for years. In the US they have non-academic programs for sen kids. Nothing will ever work for all and sadly most kids will still end up in prison. But it at least gives them a sense of achievement and some life skills they can actually use.

Of course children report back about behaviour of other children but this usually starts at 4 & 5 years old. As behaviour and reward system is made such a big thing at school. I remember having to try explain to my then 4/5yr old why their was additional reward system was in place for certain children. Yes it felt unfair their was extra rewards in place for just being good but so glad I kept my opinions to myself as my DS is so proud when he tells me so and so has achieved their extra rewards he doesn't feel any resentment whatsoever and I've learnt that it can work and it benefits my DS also because the environment of the classroom. So I am all for it. Oh how I wish I could find a reward system that worked at home for my DS

I agree that some children need specific systems in place for reward - I use these systems and I can see how useful and helpful they are.
However, there are a section of children who will just misbehave because they can- there doesn't always have to be significant reasons behind it.

What Little pond said ^^ I have never worked in education but am a mh nurse. I have assessed countless people who had a less than average upbringing where they were emotionally , physically or sexually abused and then gone on to have abusive relationships later in life. Abusive relationships, domestic violence , getting involved with crime it goes on and on.

I agree from the black and white view of a child it must seem unfair that these 'naughty ' children get this Friday afternoon tea party but this is inclusion. This is the school trying its best with with children ( remember they are children) whose parents may not have the skills to parent them. As others have said they may also be on the autistic spectrum or have other learning difficulties. Try to encourage your DC to concentrate on themselves not others.

Many 1:1 TAs have zero understanding of their child - and unfortunately no interest.

What an ignorant comment.