School rewarding 8 yr olds for bad behaviour

[Pugwash2005]

My ds and his friends have been complaining because the 4 'naughty' children in their class have a tea party every Friday afternoon if they get over 12 'smileys' in a week, 2 'good' children are also picked to go along. There was an incident in school with one of the challenging pupils but he was still allowed to the party. Ds & I along with other mums think this party is making other children feel they are not rewarded for their good behaviour along with the fact that even when naughty these 4 kids get rewarded. Your opinions on this would be great

What really galls seems to be the assumption by so many on this thread (even those who are sympathetic), that children with challenging behaviours come from dysfunctional families.

DD has Aspergers, she was permanently excluded from her first school at the age of six before she was diagnosed. The amount of judgement, particularly I have received, is staggering and contributed in no small part to a spell of depression I suffered around the time.

Even get headteacher said to me, 'If we didn't have your DS at the school I would have thought there was something terribly amiss with DD's homelife', and she was one of the supportive ones.

FWIW, we have an extremely supportive and functional domestic life, supper together round the table every night, regular bedtimes and routines, we play and chat together, have trips to interesting places and give our children what I would like to think is a happy and nuturing childhood.

When you are battling for your child to recieve the same opportunities as their NT peers life can be struggle enough and knowing there is so much unspoken judgement all around is extremely harmful.

I'm a robust individual from a solid background and it's been one of the hardest things I've ever had to cope with so I can only imagine what it's like for people without my privileges.

Bit of compassion eh?

This definitely sounds like a social skills group rather than a reward. We run them at our school as we have a group of children who really need it. Some have SEN, most don't. They all have complex behavioural needs that may or may not be related to their home lives.

When I have had children like this in my class in that past, I have always explained to the other children that we all have things we find difficult. If there is a child who has struggled to learn their times tables for months but then finally got it, they will get more praise than someone who found it easy as I'm rewarding the perseverance and hard work. It can be the same for behaviour. Although of course sanctions still need to be in place.

ILikeyour that sounds really hard. I think most teachers, based on experience, think poor social behaviour IS linked to dysfunctional families. They are not being unfair because it usually is. That is what makes your situation so hard and so sad.

The parents that really annoy me are not the ones struggling with addiction, their own or their child's SN, poverty or a host of other issues, it's the parents who think "it's only a bit of a joke". My child was just having a laugh.

if the rule is 12 smileys gets an invite, theb even the one who misbehaved in the week should still have gone if he had 12 smileys. Cant exactly say "this is the rule" then not stick to it, OP.
But then the smileys get disproportionatly given to some kids for almost nothing (e.g. sitting still, saying please, writing a sentence) whilst great kids who that all the time dont get smileys for the same thing. To get a smiley good kids have to be exceptional.
Thats not fair. Good kids may as well act up so theu can be rewarded for not being naughty.

I get putting rewards in place for kids who need extra (and who need praise for small milestones) But what i hate is having a rewards system for all kids where some kids get rewarded for being less disruptive than usual whilst other kids have to go above and beyond.

Im in secondary and it annoys the life out of me to watch the positive behaviour points roll in for a kid who wrote a paragraph and didnt boot off whilst the kids who do it all day everyday get overlooked.
Sure, have systems for those who need it but they need to he separate systems in my opinion to avoid good kids feeling undervalued.

My dad would also be one of the "naughty" children, he gets to play wth the Lego if he gets enough smiley faces ... he also gets to miss his playtime if he's being an arse. Does your child also report back on the punishments as not being fair?

I'd happily swap and have a child who wasn't on a behaviour chart, for one who the teachers feel they can leave to moderate their own behaviour. You can have the extra Lego time plus the constant phone calls from school and appointments with behavioural specialists. I'll be happy without the endless stress and will gladly explain why some children are being singled out.

That's my ds NOT my dad ... bloody autocorrect!

"The 'good' children are rewarded with happy school days, good friendships, good grades, future success and generally every chance of a happy life."

This does not always follow. I was always the 'good' child at school, and I was 'rewarded' with a 6 year sustained campaign of bullying, unhappy school days (and suicidal thoughts), good grades that were of little use to me because my self confidence had been so destroyed, and a life blighted by depression.

50 years ago those kids who didn't behave suffered corporate punishment. And yet some of them still didn't behave. Which makes me think it is a case of "can't" not "won't".

As with everything - there needs to be a balance. And there are times when well behaved kids do get passed over for awards over and over and that must be very de motivating. But it also isn't fair to give (say) my child an award for sitting nicely on the carpet whilst looking at a book when actually if given the choice of everything in the world she quite possibly would choose to sit on the carpet and read a book.

Dd has a child in her class who has significant enough special needs to have a 1:1. She also has special rewards that the others don't. Dd doesn't seem bothered - it is just "normal school life" to her just as "Lucy has a helper" is. The rewards seem to be working pretty well though - the only time Dd mentions "Lucy" is either because she's been playing with her or because "Lucy" picked her to have the reward with her.

Dd is a "report everything" sort of child which means that "Lucy" is not causing issues in the classroom. Which means the rewards are working. Which is great for everyone.

But then the smileys get disproportionatly given to some kids for almost nothing (e.g. sitting still, saying please, writing a sentence) whilst great kids who that all the time dont get smileys for the same thing. To get a smiley good kids have to be exceptional.

Bangs head on desk.

Sitting still for my DS is not almost nothing. It takes a lot of effort.

Oh... and my kid is great, thanks.

Maisypops, for some children sitting still etc isn't almost nothing. It's a big achievement.

But then the smileys get disproportionatly given to some kids for almost nothing (e.g. sitting still, saying please, writing a sentence) whilst great kids who that all the time dont get smileys for the same thing. To get a smiley good kids have to be exceptional.

My DS could knock out a decent piece of writing in minutes but he couldn't avoid being disruptive to save his life. Guess what he got smileys for? A few for his most exceptional pieces of writing and a lot for not being disruptive. Because he didn't need to learn to write more brilliantly but he did need to learn to not disrupt the class.

Good kids may as well act up so theu can be rewarded for not being naughty.

If the challenging children were only being given smileys then they wouldn't be identified as naughty by the other kids. In reality they also get the scoldings and the punishments. Maybe good kids are happy to do without the smileys and avoid the blame and trouble that come with them?

Some kids can be a bit black-and-white about things and they don't always understand why naughty children should have good things - even if the "good thing" is really a sugared pill.

they need to he separate systems in my opinion to avoid good kids feeling undervalued.

Good schools run a mix of both.

user0000000001
Sigh. I KNOW for some children they are massive milestones. I have already said i have ZERO issue with rewards systems that match kids needs.

But I do think that thry need separating from whole class rewards systems as ive seen first hand the effect of them being used inapproproately - especially with kids who dont have SEND needs but dont behave (especialy when theres been a history of home not supporting boundaries etc)
but as with any thread people pile in about their DC without actually caring about the whole discussion

I have an issue with is having rewards systems where good kids get overlooked who do the right thing all the time. At secondary that is very noticable.

*they need to he separate systems in my opinion to avoid good kids feeling undervalued.

Good schools run a mix of both.*
I totally agree.

And thank you for seeing what I'm saying.
I have no issue with rewards for milestones . Just that they have ro be fairly set up, monitored in the right way and not leave the 90% who get on feeling left out.

I have a feeling now I'm going be endlessly quoted by angry users pointing out how THEIR DC without acknowledging my main idea.

Maisie

Fair enough, I didn't read your whole post, I'm sorry.

Maisy

Maisie I think your post was dismissive of things that are major achievements for some children. I don't think anyone has said that only children with difficulties should have their achievements acknowledged.

not leave the 90% who get on feeling left out.

Also bear in mind that by high school many kids are self motivating - knowing they've done a good piece of work or met the deadline or had their work on the poster display is enough in itself. They don't need a whole song and dance just to keep them going. And most schools offer lots of opportunities to get internal rewards and recognition - wall displays and shows, clubs and competitions, helping out with the other kids. They don't need to do "exceptional" work to earn those rewards and they don't all need an endless trail of carrots to avoid feeling left out.

The 'tea party' might also be a nurture group style activity where they try to show them table manners etc. These kids are usually very disadvantaged. But it does always seem unfair to other children.

Spikeyball
From the eyes of a generally well behaved child they are small. I know that they can be milestones for some kids. But i can see how my post may be taken.

Perceived unfairness in rewards/behaviour comes up so often when i do pupil voice and questionaires. You get things like 'I got a detention for talking to my friend but Danny talks when the teacher talks abd he doesnt get in trouble'. Or 'its not fair when i get a poor attitude score but Sophie doesnt do any work and she's got a good score'.

At secondary you get situations where kids who mess on (some with needs but some just naughty) get time out of lessons, reward trips to cinemas, motivational residentials where they miss a week of lessons (whcih they actually need!) And the good kids look on fed up.

For every child that has needs and supportive parents there are other kids being pandered to who just dont behave and home overindulge them. What's interesting is that more astute kids at secondary work out fairly quickly which camp a 'naughty' child fits into (worryinglh percpetive). Kids are usually very understanding where they see a child with real needs who needs support.

For every child that has needs and supportive parents there are other kids being pandered to who just dont behave and home overindulge them.

You can't know that.

What's interesting is that more astute kids at secondary work out fairly quickly which camp a 'naughty' child fits into (worryinglh percpetive).

Neither can they. Even if their prejudices correspond to yours.

I think the generally well behaved child only sees them as small if they are given that impression by the school or by the well behaved child's parents.

The 'good' children are rewarded with happy school days, good friendships, good grades, future success and generally every chance of a happy life.
Like SDTG I disagree.
My dd has ASD. High Functioning, works hard and follows rules obsessively. She is lonely. And sad. Gets picked on. But qualifies for no real support.

I had an unhappy home life, behaved well at school and was "rewarded" by being invisible.

It is tough though for children who do behave, but have their own challenges or difficult home lives.

My child also tells me what goes on in school. He tells me who got told off that day, who did this and who did that. These are not children with any medical issues and they come from average families with no issues. They are usually the same names in the newsletter at the end of the week, getting awards. It does get very tiresome and feels unfair, so I totally understand where the OP is coming from.

In primary school a child scratched my child's face from top to bottom. He was in pain, upset and we can still see the scar today. It still annoys me to this day to recall how that child got a golden award at the end of the week. My child was in tears when he told me. He still talks today about the child who scratched him and got rewarded for it. And no, he didn't have any Sen issues.
There is something wrong with this system of rewarding kids when they do wrong. There must be another way, a middle ground somewhere so as the children who as some people put it "find it easy to behave", also get rewarded. There are lots of children who notice its the children who act up in the morning and behave in the afternoon are the ones who get rewarded and not the ones who are behaving well all day.
There have been threads like this before, and there are always lots of comments from parents raising they have children with medical issues, Sen etc, so they feel the parents of children with no issues should not complain, but I often wonder how many children with issues there are in any one class? Surely not that many? Got to be less than half? It's not always the children with issues who act up and then get rewarded. Some be bright children notice what's happening and then change their behaviour to suit so as they get rewarded too.