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Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:
1horatio · 17/03/2017 22:21

I'll be teaching both my son and my daughter that drunken sex with a stranger who says he or she is just over the age of consent is risky in all sorts of ways.

Good job. The awful thing is... Seeing as she was able to buy alcohol etc...
Even asking for an ID may have lead to the same result in this case.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/03/2017 22:21

Sorry super

Not meant to sound snarky

Its just the mention of id is confusing me Smile

Oblomov17 · 17/03/2017 22:22

There's a lot we don't know.

She buys vodka. And meets him in a taxi queue @ 4am. Where has she been for the last 8 hours? In a pub? Club? Drinking aswell?

He meets her at 4am in taxi queue. Invites her and her friend to a party. He asks her age. At some point. She claims to be 16 and said her friend is 17. They get a taxi. together? To party? Dancing? Socialising? Or instant sex? They wake up together? Or she leaves, immediately? With her friend? Where was she? We know none of the finer details.

But she tells her sister. The case starts.

This is a right mess.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/03/2017 22:23

It was a strict liability offence which is why he was convicted. As a girl under the age of 13 is deemed to be unable to consent then any sex with her is, in law, non-consensual i.e. it is rape. No intention is needed.

TheFallenMadonna · 17/03/2017 22:23

Don't worry. The take home message won't be that drunken sex with a stranger is OK if he/she can prove they're 16...

Sara107 · 17/03/2017 22:24

I was shocked when I heard the news headlines, but I don't think the headlines at all reflect the facts of the case. There does not seem to have been any intention on his part to force or coerce the girl into anything, he just didn't realise how young she was. And there doesn't seem to be any question that she made any allegations of rape or coercion, it is simply a legal technicality that a 12 cannot under law give consent for sex. To my mind the real horror is the fact that a 12 year old is sexually active and out and about on her own at night. Regardless of what she looks like, or stage of puberty she is a child and it's her parents who should be in court for not taking better care of her.

1horatio · 17/03/2017 22:25

They wake up together? Or she leaves, immediately?

We know that they went to his friend's house, that she left the next morning and apparently didn't appear distressed. The only reason she apparently told was because she thought she might be pregnant...

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/03/2017 22:25

I agree ob

Dreadful

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 22:29

People keep saying its the parents fault, But I believe we as adults all have a duty of care towards all children, where ever we come across them. Men who want to have sex have a duty of care to take the time to find out enough about the person they are with, to ensure that they are not about to rape a child. Parents have a duty of care to refuse to let their children dress like sexually provocative women, and to make sure they are not going out to adult venues.

OP posts:
Ginkypig · 17/03/2017 22:30

1horatio

I agree with you

I feel sorry for both of the people involved in this situation. From what I can see he didn't know and if he had he wouldn't ever have even invited her to the party never mind have had sex with her. And the poor girl involved well I don't want to make assumptions or gossip about a child so I won't.

I was only stating it so as to explain why this case was concluded as rape despite her consenting and him not knowing she was too young to consent. And only really to stop the argument about wether it was or wasn't rape.

SuperBeagle · 17/03/2017 22:30

Children have been known to get alcohol without using fake id

Of course, but it goes to show that she must've looked at least 18 in order to buy it. It adds to the defence case.

Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 22:31

It was not consensual sex. A 12 year old child is not able to consent to sex. Please people stop saying it was consensual- would any of you think your own 12 year old could have consensual sex?

OP posts:
Original poster
joystir59 · 17/03/2017 22:32

Men do not look past make up and clothes. She would not have been convincingly mature if anyone had spent time talking to her.

OP posts:
Oblomov17 · 17/03/2017 22:33

His face is plastered everywhere.
Good luck to him, with his job prospects. Sad

1horatio · 17/03/2017 22:34

was or wasn't rape

I will simply believe that it was rape according to Scottish law.

Seeing as where I studied law.. It may not have been.

It would have been sex with a minor, not necessarily rape (had a landmark case abiut this last summer...). But seeing as there was no intent... Negligent sex with minors isn't a legal concept (where I studied law).

However, I will freely admit that this probably heavily influences my judgement. The law we study/grow up with does afterall influence our moral judgement and what we see as criminal/wrong.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 17/03/2017 22:34

Men do not look past make up and clothes. She would not have been convincingly mature if anyone had spent time talking to her.

And the Police who also thought she was 18?
I'm guessing that's because they were (probably) men to?

JellyBoat · 17/03/2017 22:34

Nobody is disputing the legal definition of rape as a crime, which varies from one jurisdiction to another. What we're talking about is rape in it's normal meaning, which is sexual intercourse with someone against their will. Particularly from the point of you of the accused, he is not a rapist in the ordinary meaning of that word because he never intended to have sex with somebody against their will.

1horatio · 17/03/2017 22:34

that was aimed at ginky, btw.

x2boys · 17/03/2017 22:35

no i woulkdnt think my child could have consensual sex at 12 and i have boys my oldest is ten but my children wouldnt be roaming the streets going to night clubs and etc at 12 either although that said i was 14 the first time i bought alcohol in pubs this was the late 80,s but i clearly passed for 18.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/03/2017 22:37

Joy
By consensual I think people mean non-coercive. So as a matter of law she could not consent but he didn't force her against her will either.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 17/03/2017 22:38

Men do not look past make up and clothes. She would not have been convincingly mature if anyone had spent time talking to her.

And the judge who was female and also agreed she looked older than she actually was..?

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 17/03/2017 22:42

joystir - can't comment about this particular child because I don't know her, but you're wrong to say that he couldn't see past the clothes and make up - at my DS1's primary school last year, there was a girl in Y6, who was probably 12, who looked easily 18. At the school leaving do for the Y6s, she looked like a young adult. She walked and talked like a young adult. I had spent some time with her over a school project and no, she did not come off as an average 12 yo girl. Should she have wanted to go out on the town and persuade some bloke that she was over 16, she would have managed it without any trouble whatsoever, unless of course they knew her and her family.

It's not common, but it does happen.

RufusTheRenegadeReindeer · 17/03/2017 22:42

super

I appreciate what you are saying and you may be completely correct

But Adults are quite often approached by children to buy them alcohol

Its happened to a number of friends of mine

Not me though...i think it might be my resting bitch face

Papafran · 17/03/2017 22:43

Men do not look past make up and clothes. She would not have been convincingly mature if anyone had spent time talking to her

Joy I will ask you again- how the hell do you know this?

Voice0fReason · 17/03/2017 22:44

I sympathise with both the girl and the young man.
The Judge made the right decision - this was an exceptional case.