Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:
MrsDustyBusty · 19/03/2017 11:16

There was nothing that could have possibly indicated to him that she might have been 12

Nothing at all could possibly have indicated this? How can you know that?

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2017 11:46

It is and he has been. What more do you want? Do you think the streets would be a safer place if this young man was sent to prison?
In this case, not necessarily. I would guess that actually, when he realised what he'd done he probably would have been expecting more of a punishment and afaik he didn't try to evade that. Its the posters saying 'he did nothing wrong' I have an issue with more.

Sallystyle · 19/03/2017 11:48

In that environment, how many under 16 year olds would be allowed out drinking and partying. She fitted right in so he didn't question it.

Loads, actually. I remember being at school and 15 year olds were going out partying. There was a club well known for letting anyone in. It shouldn't happen but it does often. It happens enough to know that someone who claims they are 16 could be lying about their age. Not all parents check up on their children when they claim they are staying over a friends etc.

You can't condemn 19 year old men for wanting to have sex - that's a normal human drive.

I can condemn them for picking up someone they thought was barely legal and taking her home for sex all I like. I don't give a shit if having a sex drive is normal, I do care when people are picking up what they think is a girl barely legal for a ONS. I know, I'm stupid to have higher expectations of 19 year old men. Horn dogs that they are can't control their drive enough to think shit through.

Even if the thought had crossed his mind that she might have been lying about her age, I doubt for one second that he could have believed her to be under 13.

Oh so it's ok as long as he believed she might have been only year or two younger than she claimed?

The 12 year old should never have been there and another adult has some responsibility for how she was allowed to be.

Indeed she shouldn't have been there. The one responsible for sleeping with her in entirely down to the man who slept with her.

Sallystyle · 19/03/2017 11:50

Its the posters saying 'he did nothing wrong' I have an issue with more

Yep.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2017 11:51

The 12 year old should never have been there and another adult has some responsibility for how she was allowed to be.
If you want to reduce the number of 12 year olds having sex, then ensuring they are not out partying at 4am must be a key part of that.

Yes, absolutely. But two wrongs don't make a right, its not an either/or. Whoever didn't safeguard this child in the first place - whether inadequate or deluded parents, or overstretched care system - should bear responsibility for this happening- and I'd be pretty sure that there will be investigations and consequences there too. That's a separate issue.

LoginInformation · 19/03/2017 12:11

It's the posters saying 'he did nothing wrong' I have an issue with more

He did do something wrong because he had sex with a 12 year old and there are very few people in the world who don't see this as wrong - including the man here. The difference is that he didn't deserve to be punished for what he did wrong. I'm surprised by the number of posters who think he should have expected a tipsy girl, in a taxi queue at 4am, who appeared much older than she was, to be under 16 let alone a pre-teen.

The one responsible for sleeping with her in entirely down to the man who slept with her.

The issue is less serious in my analogy but, if I sold you a car and gave you a fake MOT cert. with 10 months remaining, something went wrong and you killed someone due to it, technically, you are responsible. However, you're very unlikely to be punished due to reasonable measures. I think that what is 'reasonable' is the point here. If she'd had a fake ID then would he still be equally to blame?

Falafelings · 19/03/2017 13:24

The key here is intent. And his intentions were to sleep with a young woman. He didn't intend to rape a child. No one had any idea she was a child.

Falafelings · 19/03/2017 13:27

I believe the girl and the boy are both very much victims.

I wonder what sort of parenting and boundaries that girl has, to be out at 4am tipsy?

PlectrumElectrum · 19/03/2017 13:34

No the key is careless disregard to the possibility that the girl wasn't old enough to have sex, coupled with the fact that she was actually 12. The mental gymnastics being done to exonerate a man from culpability in having sex with a 12 yr old is quite something. Having sex with a 12 yr old is unacceptable in any circumstances. Nothing justifies it at all. His 'intent' was to have sex, regardless of risks involved in picking someone up he didn't know. He took that risk, but failed to even consider the possibility that her claiming to be 16 was a lie, and the extent of that lie.

Elendon · 19/03/2017 13:38

So Falafelings this was a boy sleeping with a young woman? Or was she a girl?

I'm wondering what sort of parenting and boundaries that 19 year old 'boy' had that he couldn't distinguish between a 12 year old and a sixteen year old when it came to sex after speaking to her. His parents should be ashamed of themselves.

funnylikeaclown · 19/03/2017 13:39

The mental gymnastics being done to exonerate a man from culpability in having sex with a 12 yr old is quite something.

No need for mental gymnastics, just some simple compassion for someone who made a mistake, caught up in highly unusual circumstances. Compassion sadly lacking in numerous posts.

PlectrumElectrum · 19/03/2017 13:42

Compassion for a man who had sex with a 12 yr old. Hmm

Elendon · 19/03/2017 13:42

The circumstances were not higly unusual.

It was not a mistake.

My compassion is for the 12 year old girl.

funnylikeaclown · 19/03/2017 13:45

The circumstances were highly unusual to the extent that the judge herself commented on that face. It was a mistake because he genuinely believed her to be of age.

I'ts quite plain your compassion is only for the girl and the fact you have none for the man reflects badly on you

funnylikeaclown · 19/03/2017 13:45

*fact not face

Elendon · 19/03/2017 13:46

Oh and flac having sex with a 12 yr old

You cannot have sex with a 12 year old. It's rape.

funnylikeaclown · 19/03/2017 13:46

Compassion for a man who had sex with a 12 yr old
A man who was as horrified by that fact as everyone else.

Elendon · 19/03/2017 13:48

The judge said it was rape, the man (not boy) admitted it was rape.

He is free though, surely that's a win. No?

Moussemoose · 19/03/2017 13:48

that he couldn't distinguish between a 12 year old and a sixteen year old

Elendon it really is not that easy as many posters have said.

We all, as a society, have failed this girl. The money we spend on support workers, pastoral care in schools etc is minimal. We want to point the finger at him or the parents or her but we all live and pay taxes in a society where this happens regularly. The police were out checking for this type of situation. Rather than blaming individuals we need to take a long hard look at how this was allowed to happen.

And then put our hands in our pockets and pay for the support necessary.

Elendon · 19/03/2017 13:49

I bet there are a few jailed rapists now wishing they had the same judgement as this man.

Elendon · 19/03/2017 13:51

Mouse - I specifically said after talking to her. Why are you being so selective in my quotes?

Tell me you have donated to Rape Crisis and I will believe you.

Moussemoose · 19/03/2017 13:53

Elendon what a spectacularly unhelpful thing to write.

This is difficult case, the judge acknowledged that. No one is a winner.

Annahibiscuits · 19/03/2017 13:53

Regardless of what she LOOKED like, it would surely become obvious she was underage, on speaking with her?? She is 12, not 15 or 16. A 19 year old would have been able to recognise something wasn't right, I would have thought

CecilyP · 19/03/2017 13:55

No need for mental gymnastics at all. I tend to underestimate young people's ages. Young girls wearing make up look precisely that to me. However, if I was in a taxi queue at 4 in the morning, or even much earlier after a night out, it simply wouldn't occur to me for one minute that 2 unaccompanied girls could be as young as 12. So, in this case it wasn't just that the girl looked older, but the circumstances where they met.

Annahibiscuits · 19/03/2017 13:55

I've been on a few threads lately about 'tall children' and how they aren't treated in the same way/are assumed to be more responsible etc than their age. My dd has quite seriously suffered as a result of this. Could this be at play here do you think??