Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:
sopsmum · 18/03/2017 15:39

I hope the parents are prosecuted for neglect over this.

RJnomore1 · 18/03/2017 15:40

I can think of a particular girl I know who this could happen to and she is so heartbreakingly vulnerable. It's just the kind of thing she would do - drinking pretending she was older out to all hours. And she looks older but she's so emotionally damaged. She's 13 now though so going by the logic used in this case thee would be no case to answer.

springflowers11 · 18/03/2017 15:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RJnomore1 · 18/03/2017 15:43

Spring flowers that is a disgusting victim blaming comment and you need to educate yourself.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 18/03/2017 15:44

spring that's not fair.

Megatherium · 18/03/2017 15:45

Its in everyone's interests to say she looked and acted older. The shopkeeper who sold her alcohol, the police on the look out for underage girls out, the taxi driver who took her somewhere she didn't know with an adult she didn't know, the man who had sex with her.

We don't know that a shopkeeper did sell her alcohol. It could well have been one of her friends. The taxi driver had no duty towards her.
The police were looking for another girl, it's not really their job to police every teenager out on the streets at night. And the judge, who saw the CCTV footage and agreed she looked older, certainly had no interest of that nature.

HandbagCrab · 18/03/2017 15:45

Anyone take a 12 year olds advice about tax or investments? Anyone letting 12 year olds look after babies or run a shop or join parliament or fight in Afghanistan? Some are so mature I don't know why not...

If 12 year olds are coming across as adult in terms of sex is because they are being abused and exploited, not some innate adultness that some 12 year olds have. And it will continue to happen when so many are willing to make excuses for how actual adults respond to children in these situations.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/03/2017 15:49

I agree Mega we don't know where she got the alcohol from; the taxi driver had no locus in this at all.

I don't know how one can compare the fleeting connection he had or watching 2D ctv footage as being the same as being in a close and intimate environment with her.

Megatherium · 18/03/2017 15:50

Anyone take a 12 year olds advice about tax or investments? Anyone letting 12 year olds look after babies or run a shop or join parliament or fight in Afghanistan?

Irrelevant. I wouldn't particularly want a 16 year old to do any of those things either, even though of course they are legally allowed to have babies at that age.

Megatherium · 18/03/2017 15:51

Lass, the judgment says the police spoke to her at some length and had no concerns.

Megatherium · 18/03/2017 15:53

I don't know where people are getting the impression that this means the accused got away scot free. As has been pointed out, he has a serious conviction on his record, he has had this trial hanging over him for 19 months, and he had to leave his college course. He's also had his face and name plastered all over the news.

ScarletFever · 18/03/2017 15:54

I think the victim in this case is the 19 year old lad. The 12 year old lied and knew in doing so that she was enticing him into committing a serious offence, and also the parents for allowing her to be raking about the strrets in the early hours!

there are no winners in this case - a child has been failed by those who should be looking after her (whether parents or other) - i personally think they are both victims

UpdateRequired · 18/03/2017 15:54

Teenagers have been lying about their age since the dawn of time. Every teenager I've ever known has added a year or several to impress older guys/girls. It's nothing new and older teens should be wise to this.

HandbagCrab · 18/03/2017 16:00

So 12 year old girls can be adult enough to have sex with but not adult enough to do or know about the myriad of other things adults do.

When 19 year old men are taking 12 year old girls seriously in any other sphere than sex and the age of consent then you can say it's irrelevant.

lalalalyra · 18/03/2017 16:00

12 year olds don't act like 16 years old, but that would require a conversation and not just sex

Some of them do. They really do.

I consider myself lucky that of my twins whilst one can easily sound around 18 and one can easily look around 18 neither can do both. I do know at least 2 of their friends who can both look and sound like they are considerably older than their age.

HandbagCrab · 18/03/2017 16:06

If 1000s of 10-15 year old girls are walking around looking and acting older then instead of everyone shrugging their shoulders when this happens we should be ensuring every adult is well aware of this and moderates their sexual behaviour accordingly. If so many look and act older, saying you thought she was older shouldn't cut it as you could easily be terribly wrong.

BabychamSocialist · 18/03/2017 16:09

12 year olds don't act like 16 years old, but that would require a conversation and not just sex

People thought my then-13 year old sons were going off to Uni, even after having a full conversation with them.

Even now at 16 people think they're in their 20s. We're always getting comments about how we don't look old enough to have adult kids and when we tell them they're only 16 people are shocked.

I'm not saying that's what happened here but many, many teenagers are able to pass for someone in their early 20s, just as there are people in their 20s who can pass for 15/16.

RJnomore1 · 18/03/2017 16:11

Handbag I think that's a very relevant post.

BabychamSocialist · 18/03/2017 16:14

Handbagcrab

You seem to be under the assumption that the bloke knew he was having sex with someone under-age. He didn't. He thought she was of age, seeing as she'd told him that and EVERYONE who met her thought she was older than 12.

I've known 20 year olds who act like they're 12 and 12 year olds who handle running a house because their parents are disabled and they seem far older than their years.

Yes, things could easily go wrong as happened in this case, but I don't really think it's fair to say that 19 year olds (as he was) shouldn't be having sex with 16 year olds.

The age of consent is 16. She was out in a city centre, drunk, at 4am. He spoke to her and conversed with her. Based on all the evidence around him, he had no reason at all to believe she was anything other than the age she told him. That's why the judge did not hand a custodial sentence - he did everything that you could reasonably expect a partner to do (short of checking photo ID) before having sex.

Like I've said - the guy is a convicted sex offender now, and there's no question about that. But we should now focus on what failings happened that allowed a 12 year old girl to be in that situation in the first place.

Elendon · 18/03/2017 16:18

I hope the parents are prosecuted for neglect over this. Yes, the parents of the teenage boy should be prosecuted for this. Their son was clearly let down by them. They did not instruct him properly on consent when it comes to sex and have let him down badly. I'm not being sarcastic.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 18/03/2017 16:20

of course you're not.

UpdateRequired · 18/03/2017 16:28

But we should now focus on what failings happened that allowed a 12 year old girl to be in that situation in the first place.

There are thousands of young girls in that situation, Rotherham anyone?? There always will be so I don't think it helps to focus on why this young girl was out in the middle of the night, that's a bit like the 'dont drink too much, you might get raped' message. Let's stop focussing on why victims become victims and start focussing on teaching men not to have sex with girls they can't be sure are of legal age or are in any state to give informed consent.

Pseudonym99 · 18/03/2017 16:28

Teenagers have been lying about their age since the dawn of time. Every teenager I've ever known has added a year or several to impress older guys/girls. It's nothing new and older teens should be wise to this.

Trouble is, older teens are probably still too young, emotionally and socially immature to be able to be wise to it. If you get a streetwise 12 year old girl who looks and acts like she's 16 or older, and an un-streetwise 19 year old boy, the 12 year old will have the upper hand and be the one in control of the situation.

Trifleorbust · 18/03/2017 16:30

Elendon:

What should they have taught him?

Pseudonym99 · 18/03/2017 16:31

Let's stop focussing on why victims become victims and start focussing on teaching men not to have sex with girls they can't be sure are of legal age or are in any state to give informed consent.

But he was sure. The police, taxi driver and judge agreed with him. Perhaps the adults responsible for her should be the ones held responsible for this crime?

Swipe left for the next trending thread