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Original poster

To think the result of this rape trial is disgusting

999 replies

joystir59 · 17/03/2017 20:48

Man gets off completely Scot=free for raping a 12 year old girl, and that this result gives such a wrong message to men, in a world in which girls are never considered too young anyway. I'm enraged!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

OP posts:
STFU · 18/03/2017 13:12

It's simple basic human decency and I'm shocked to think that people would actively defend their right to use others bodies as playthings without a regard to their wellbeing.

That isn't what's happened in this case. I think this girl's wellbeing seems to have been harmed and that's what led to this situation. I don't think the actual sex in this case caused it. She was willing and not treated as a plaything.

Trifleorbust · 18/03/2017 13:13

RJnomore1: We do. But as a result of that distinction, I don't mind if his mates call him a nonce, I mind if he goes to prison.

RJnomore1 · 18/03/2017 13:13

MrsB have you even read this case he pleaded guilty and was convicted!!!!

RJnomore1 · 18/03/2017 13:14

Actually trifle I'm not convinced prison would be appropriate here either.

There's a range of disposals between discharge and prison though.

RJnomore1 · 18/03/2017 13:18

STFU I was commenting more generally in response to other comments, I meant it more broadly than just in this case.

However we don't know what damage may or may not have been caused and I think it's unfair to speculate that the girl must already have been "damaged goods" so this must have been inconsequential. One thing we do know for example is that she worried she was pregnant, she was 12 and worried she was pregnant. That doesn't sound like a positive or neutral effect on wellbeing.

MrsDustyBusty · 18/03/2017 13:24

Having been on a jury for a similar type of case, I can completely understand how he was found not guilty. You have to absolutely ascertain that he KNEW she was underage.

To me, this is the wrong emphasis. It suggests that he is entitled to assume that she's 16+ unless he has reason to think otherwise. At that age, I think he should be expected to assume she's underage unless he has good reason to believe otherwise.

AssassinatedBeauty · 18/03/2017 13:26

Also, as already pointed out, he wasn't found not guilty. He was found guilty, as he pled, and the judge decided to give him an absolute discharge as she felt that was appropriate in these circumstances.

imjessie · 18/03/2017 13:39

I feel sorry for the guy , he made a massive mistake but if he thought she was older then fair enough . I have a 13 year old dd and no way would she be out being drunk or on her own late at night anywhere !!

MrsDustyBusty · 18/03/2017 13:42

but if he thought she was older then fair enough

Just read that back to yourself. That can't possibly be what you actually think. How young could the child be before he couldn't use that excuse? If a seven year old told a man she was 25, would that be fair enough?

Trifleorbust · 18/03/2017 13:46

MrsDustyBusty: No. That is why such a belief would be subjected to a test of reasonableness.

coconuttella · 18/03/2017 13:49

No one is saying that sex with a 12 yo is OK.... It doesn't follow that the sentence is wrong.

I still don't get the reasoning of those saying the verdict was a disgrace, yet the law is still fine as it is and he should just have 'been more careful' without any real suggestion about what he should do....

Another thought is that the law should be tightened to require adults to have taken all reasonable steps to ascertain age, and specify that this requires some kind of third party assurance (such as knowing the person in a social context) or that their appearance leaves no possible doubt that they are over 16 (i.e. They clearly look no less than mid-20s), and that merely having met them in an adult setting with them claiming and looking to be 16+ would not be deemed to be sufficient. Until the law is changed in this kind of way, I think the kind of sentence we saw was reasonable.

Moussemoose · 18/03/2017 13:51

The girl involved is definitely a victim but, frankly, rape is the least of the issues.

Her life has lead her to a point where she is out late at night, looking to have sex with a stranger. The massive issue is - how did this happen?

Who was supposed to be looking after her? Who had a duty to care for her and why did they fail? Why was she choosing to do this?

There were police looking for other girls acting in a similar way! This case highlights a huge social issue. The discussion is all about the statutory rape of this girl. The issue is our social negligence that allows this to happen.

coconuttella · 18/03/2017 14:03

You have to absolutely ascertain that he KNEW she was underage.

I disagree... he should show that he was reasonable in thinking she was 16+. However, I think the law needs changing so that he should demonstrate that he took all reasonable measures to ensure that she wasn't underage, and that meeting in an adult setting isn't sufficient to demonstrate this.

coconuttella · 18/03/2017 14:04

I mean meeting a'person who may or may not be an adult.

Voice0fReason · 18/03/2017 14:16

I'm genuinely shocked at the sheer number of mners (most of whom are probably parents) who think this is ok.
I don't think ANYBODY thinks this situation is ok, that's not really the question. The question is about the law and how it makes judgements when situations like this are not black and white.
A young man made a judgement based on the information he had. All of the other adults around made the same judgement.

We have moral obligations which at times go beyond our legal ones.
But you don't send someone to prison for failing in percieved moral obligations

he should be expected to assume she's underage unless he has good reason to believe otherwise.
She was out drinking at 4am with friends. Every adult she came into contact with believed she was at least 16. He did have every reason to believe she was old enough.

It is of far bigger concern to me that this girl was in this position, living that lifestyle in the first place. What has gone wrong in her life that has resulted in this? If there are moral or legal failings anywhere, I would be looking for the adults who were responsible for her, not the young man who was charged with raping her.

Voice0fReason · 18/03/2017 14:17

However, I think the law needs changing so that he should demonstrate that he took all reasonable measures to ensure that she wasn't underage
Like what?

coconuttella · 18/03/2017 14:19

See my post of 13:49

TedEriksen · 18/03/2017 14:21

he should show that he was reasonable in thinking she was 16+.

That has already been demonstrated by a number of people, including the police, who thought the girl was 16 or older.

What is your suggestion for demonstration on his part? Signed statements prior to sex? Video footage of discussions beforehand?

coconuttella · 18/03/2017 14:30

Ted
I made suggestions in my post of 13:49

MrsDustyBusty · 18/03/2017 14:49

What is your suggestion for demonstration on his part? Signed statements prior to sex? Video footage of discussions beforehand?

Yes, how could an adult possibly know they were dealing with a child?

First of all, men have to start accepting that sex isn't always on the cards. If she's too young, it's no. If she isn't too keen, it's a no, even if she isn't trying to kill you to get away. There are too many excuses built into the social discourse around sex for men to evade normal social responsibility if sex is on the table, far too many excuses, far too many people ready to take pretty implausible explanations as fact.

I actually think that people going on about video evidence and that kind of crap are part of the problem of endorsing this idea that establishing that a prospective sexual partner is willing and of age as requiring mind reading superpowers rather than the minimum necessary as a responsible and normal person is part of the problem leading to men not being seen to be responsible for their actions.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 18/03/2017 14:56

he should show that he was reasonable in thinking she was 16+.

The thing is.... The Judge, Police Officers, A Taxi Driver and she herself all said she was over 16....

That is reasonable, i don't like it, You don't like it, but it's not a case of one perosn saying "I thought she was 16", it's a case of everyone she came into contact with.

RJnomore1 · 18/03/2017 14:57

The difference though is that none of those others attempted to have sex with her.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 18/03/2017 14:58

I'm also assuming the childs own verison of events matched.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 18/03/2017 14:59

The difference though is that none of those others attempted to have sex with her.

yes... and none of those others are now a convicted rapist with their face and name known to the public.

JustAnotherSilentOldNumber · 18/03/2017 15:01

I don't know enough about law, about sex, about 'partying' or teenagers to really comment.

But it was shown, beyond a doubt, that it was reasonable to think she was over 16 to the judge.

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