To tell DH that this is too much?

[Alaia5]

I've posted about DH and his behaviour/ hobbies some months back, so apologies about another question.

DH has recently turned 45 and wants to go on an expedition to the North Pole. The expedition would take 80 days, plus another 2 weeks training prior to the expedition itself.

We have 4 DC aged 14, 12, 9 and 6, so not babies anymore. I also have MIL living nearby and she is a LOT to deal with on a day-to-day basis. In the 15 years we've been married I I've never held DH back from doing anything. He's away regularly due to work anyway, so I'm more than used to coping on my own for anything between one night to a week.

80 days though is practically 3 months and I'm surprised that I feel slightly panicked and tearful at the thought of him being away for that long. I'm not even sure if there will be wi-fi? On the other hand, it's for a great cause and I can see it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. I'm obviously worried about the impact of him being away on the DC as well, particularly our younger two.

AIBU to say this is too much or AIBU to let him go and have my DC be without their dad for 3 months? I know there are millions of single parents or people with partners in the forces which makes me think maybe I'm being a bit precious about the whole thing? DH is coming back from NY tomorrow night and wants to discuss it, but I genuinely don't know what to think. AIBU?

Alaia are you actually ok with him going away for a month? That still sounds like quite a long time to me. Will it be during term time or the school holidays? Has he said anything about the risks of an expedition like this? Is he putting in place things to make sure things are straight forward for you should things go wrong? While the trip is now "cut down" to a month, is it the same amount of training? What does that really mean for the additional pressures he's putting on your shoulders and are you actually comfortable with that?

You seem to have glossed over whether the conversation you had with him ended in a better understanding on his part and an agreement by you both that a month long trip is fine and manageable, or whether it was more along the lines of "OK, 3 months is too long, so I'm going for a month." And you going along with that jut because it seemed so much better than what you'd first feared.

I have just read this. I am glad you at least managed to communicate you can't handle 3 months! I do think from the sound of that email re plans that you probably get a few of those and you really need to talk yourself into responding 'you didn't know? You should ask the secretary. I'm not your bloody secretary.' I also think you need to say in the next week re his 'chance of a lifetime trip' the good thing about these discussions darling is now I know you can shelve work and car vanity trips for months if needed and it's important enough! As the most important people in your life we are very glad to know this! Say it cheerily ... absolutely make sure YOU really want to go to Argentina - if not, TELL HIM. Love your ds's angelina jolie comment, it sounds like their heads are screwed on right. Although if my dh thought flying business for a charity trip (JOLLY) reasonable I'd have spent the next year mocking him to friends and family , mine and his. 'Oh yes, it was for charity - of course the business class flights cost 10 computers each and they only took 50, but if it lets him pretend he's really contributing , or maybe he just can't add up, who knows?' I absolutely would have said this every opportunity I got, I am not just being some Internet warrior. Remember the old you who said you didn't like being married to someone in the armed forces? I think you slowly are remembering that you and well done :)

Carl - I don't know how other people feel, but for me it's really difficult to separate out how much I've facilitated his behaviour and how it could have been different. Counselling could maybe help me with that as PPs have suggested.

Boom - I can cope with "only" a month, yes, I can cope with the DC and I'll just get on with it. It will just be quite lonely. Although I do miss him a lot, in a sense it's a bit easier when he's not here as less food shopping and cooking etc. We will chill and order Deliveroo more I expect I could not have been solely responsible for MIL though for a quarter of a year!

I'm not asking if you can "cope" with it. You seem creative and resourceful. I'm asking if it's really OK with you and your DC, whether you've factored in all the time in addition to the month he's technically on expedition and whether he has really appreciated what he's asking of you in order for him to do this? Is this the sort of family life you want?

OP,
I've been reading this whole discussion over the weekend and against my better judgement have decided to wade in.
dons flameproof hat
From what you have said and what is being suggested you obviously love your HD and feel you are getting the same in return, so far so fair.
I would suggest though that to get a bit of impartiality it might be worth stepping back a bit and imagining that. this situation is happening to your dearest friend/sister. Looking at it that way what would you say? Would it still be a situation you would be happy to see unchanged?
Obviously it is difficult to force the kind of benign confrontation you need with someone is reluctant to be introspective, and the progress you have thus far made is better than nothing.
It would seem though that most of the ducks slightly irate or upset posts you've received have come from people who are clearly frustrated about the situation you find yourself in. Because, let's be honest, it's not just the jaunt to a frozen wasteland, there's a load of other stuff going on, a lot of which seems to be him getting what he wants whilst maneuvering you into doing stuff that needs to be done but might not be "fun".
Next time something g "comes up" which prevents him from helping, in any format, flip it round and see if you would still be happy if it was a friend.
But in all truth any progress is good, as long as it is consistent.
Good luck!

Thankyou Time - yes the fact he can apparently now take time off has come as a revelation at least!
Boom - your question is what I'm struggling with really so I don't have the full answer tbh, but thankyou.
Thanks for the advice Slack and no need to wear a hard hat Its very helpful to imagine what I would say to someone else in the same scenario, yes.

Sorry if I sound a bit rushed after your thoughtful posts but he's home atm so trying not to be acting suspiciously on MN

Make it very clear to him that, if he does go, it has to be on the basis that other arrangements are made for MiL.

3 months is a bit long to go trekking in the North Pole when you have 4 children to take care of and really their emotional, physical and educational needs should be put first. A month prob wouldn't be too bad and maybe he could compromise on the length of time he's away however even still I would discuss with him whether it's really necessary in comparison to your children's needs and also what if something were to happen to him as those types of environments are extremely hostile. I feel it's the sort of thing you do really pre-children or as a single man with no responsibilities. He may however become resentful if he can't fulfil his life goals. As you say people with families do go away when in the services however the services usually have a great support system in place for families.

catwhite - RTFT

So many dads work away : oil rigs, abroad for a better salary, etc...
Your kids are old enough to understand how special this adventure is. Imagine the play ground conversations, how proud of their dad to do such a special thing.
The question here is that you are scared and until you resolve that you will feel uncertain. I would be too and my concern is that he has a good insurance life policy as what he is going to do can be dangerous and he needs to make sure your family financial side is covered no matter what.

Who knows, maybe next time you can both do something together?

Natjojo have you read the full thread? Why would you put OP's husband in the same category as people who go away for work to earn money, when he only wants to go away for an unnecessary - and dangerous - jaunt?

Hi MrDacre
Just to say, last night I kind of lost it with DH. Everything has just built up inside me and I pretty much told him everything I said on this thread. All I wanted him to do was go and say goodnight to the girls, but he was making them wait for him because he was too "busy working" on the computer. It wasn't work though, it was something about car racing. I just snapped and told him his priorities are off. I told him more or less everything I've said in this thread. He got quite defensive about his relationship with the DC. The rest of the time he gave me his blank, mystified expression, said very little and looked at me as if I was crazy. Anyway today he gone to his car thing. He called (I let it go to voicemail) to say he loves me, he doesn't want to argue and he's sorry I'm upset. I'm not sure he fully grasps what I'm actually upset about, but It had to be said and this is how I feel.
Thankyou to everyone on this thread who has helped me get perspective.

He's sorry you're upset. Not sorry for his behaviour.

Well done love. The first step is the hardest and you've just achieved that - recognising that something is wrong and calling it out.

Things don't change overnight, and to be honest if you'd posted that he'd had a 'road to Damascus' style revelation then I would've been extremely suspicious as to the veracity of his light bulb moment!

Every relationship has a different dynamic; if yours is that you are the home-maker and a SAHP then that's absolutely fine as long as your H recognises what you do and the importance of prioritising his family over his social life and unnecessary work

You were absolutely right to tell him that his priorities are wrong. By sitting on the computer mooching at car stuff when his children - who already miss him and complain at his lack of presence and involvement - want to spend time with him, is indefensible.

Broken record technique in response to what he says - just rinse and repeat, gently but firmly until it - hopefully - starts to sink in:

he loves me
Love is more than just saying 'I love you'. Whilst it's important to verbalise your feelings, it's equally important that you validate them with your actions and behaviour. When you sit on the computer doing something unnecessary and ignore your children, your actions suggest that you don't love us.

he doesn't want to argue
It's not an argument - you're simply pointing out that his behaviour is now so extreme he is in serious danger of jeopardising his family life, because he is absent. As his Wife and Mother of his children you are simply pointing out the impact that this is having on everyone, because he seems oblivious - and if he truly does love everyone then he will want to take the opportunity to look at his actions and consider how they align to the way he says he feels.

he's sorry I'm upset
This is passive aggressive, but I am sure you don't mean it that way. When you say "I'm sorry you're upset" you make me feel as if you are minimising what I am saying. It also avoids responsibility as YOUR actions are the cause of the upset. I'd like you to acknowledge that and take ownership.

He's sorry I'm upset - but he's not apologising for what he actually did?

OP this has been going on for a while, the trip has brought you almost to boiling point, and last night you got there. Because yet again what he was doing was something he wanted to do for his own pleasure, but took precedence over his family.

Somehow you're going to have to get through his self centred little shell. In his text this morning he said he loves you. I suggest you start by asking him what he means by loving someone, how he thinks that it influences behaviour in a relationship. Not asking him accusingly or in a temper, ask him the question genuinely. And if he gets stuck, don't feel the need to rush in and start talking to fill the silence. Let him think it through for himself. What you learn about him from that will help shape how you decide to take this forward.

Hi
Really pleased you told him how you feel. Let's see what he does/says next.

He was asking me why was I trying to be nasty when I told him the girls don't understand why he won't go to them - "Why are you laying all this on me now?" etc. Well because it's 9pm and they need to go to sleep! He said if I kept interrupting him things would take longer, but I told him the girls don't understand that and why should they wait up late for you.
I told him there are so many things I do day to day that he has no awareness of whatsoever. I asked him why, for instance, he would just sit st the table and never think to help me clear away dinner, when its obvious I go to an effort to cook for him and the evenings are so busy with the DC. Why can't he just do one thing? He didn't have an answer. He actually asked if it was my time of the month

Anyway what he will do now is go on a super charm offensive and try and gloss over everything. I'm not having any of it though.

Thanks again.

That's so low of him

Yep sounds like you need to define some clear boundaries and what is expected of him on a daily basis as a husband and as a father.

Sounds like you're finding your mojo, OP, and I like it!

Keep going.

Mojo . I like it.

Yes, OP. I think he's got so detached from the family. Steering that round will feel like turning the Titanic at times.

It's a lot for him to take in at one go, but keep going. Maybe write it down so he can read at leisure and re-read.

Keep thinking about Boom's question and mine earlier: Is this the sort of family life you want? What kind of family would you like to model for your own children when they have their families? This would be a good topic to talk about with him.

Good luck! and

I'm so pleased that you finally got angry! I know I've been harsh on you earlier in this thread - it was really because I was getting angry on your behalf.

It's not going to be easy to change such a long-standing dynamic between you but the first step had to be accessing your anger and you allowing yourself to feel properly cross about how disengaged your DH is from domestic life.

Yes, I don't know what happened but it was like I suddenly just looked at him on the laptop, shutting us all out, and I saw red. Even today I've been driving round feeling in a rage! I will calm down but I just feel as if something has changed in me, I really do. He will have to get used to it.
I'm so grateful to the lovely people on MN

Sometimes your eyes need opening by seeing things through other people's eyes.

It took you a while (and some forthright posters) to do that, so I can imagine it's going to take him a while longer.

I'd keep phrasing it, that he needs to prioritise the children.

I need to work on the computer
No, you need to prioritise the children
(And you!)

Oh Alaia I am really proud of you - well done.

Keep on it - slow and steady wins the race. Don't lose your temper and try not to get upset; it makes it more difficult for him to dismiss you if you stay calm and firm.

Watch for him throwing money and 'things' at the problem. Look at what he did last time - you said you weren't happy, so his answer was to take you on holiday (his choice of location) with MIL! You need to make it clear to him that some things cannot be bought and are only available when love and time and attention invested.

Don't let him get away with using emotive and inaccurate language.

• I'm not being nasty; I'm telling you how I feel. Would you prefer that I stayed silent and lied to you?
• Do you realise how sexist and patronising it sounds when you suggest that my period - and therefore 'hormones' - are to blame? If you're in a bad mood I don't ask if it's because you have sore testicles.

- Yes things will take longer if you are interrupted, but you are missing the point that what you are doing is not important and time-sensitive and can therefore be delayed or rescheduled so that you can prioritise time with your family. Unless you are suggesting that it's more important you arrange your social life instead of spending time with your daughters who would like you to say goodnight to them?

Bat it back. Make it clear that you love him and want things to work (if this is what you want, I am going by your previous posts), but that a happy marriage and family requires effort from everyone