To tell DH that this is too much?

[Alaia5]

I've posted about DH and his behaviour/ hobbies some months back, so apologies about another question.

DH has recently turned 45 and wants to go on an expedition to the North Pole. The expedition would take 80 days, plus another 2 weeks training prior to the expedition itself.

We have 4 DC aged 14, 12, 9 and 6, so not babies anymore. I also have MIL living nearby and she is a LOT to deal with on a day-to-day basis. In the 15 years we've been married I I've never held DH back from doing anything. He's away regularly due to work anyway, so I'm more than used to coping on my own for anything between one night to a week.

80 days though is practically 3 months and I'm surprised that I feel slightly panicked and tearful at the thought of him being away for that long. I'm not even sure if there will be wi-fi? On the other hand, it's for a great cause and I can see it's a once in a lifetime opportunity for him. I'm obviously worried about the impact of him being away on the DC as well, particularly our younger two.

AIBU to say this is too much or AIBU to let him go and have my DC be without their dad for 3 months? I know there are millions of single parents or people with partners in the forces which makes me think maybe I'm being a bit precious about the whole thing? DH is coming back from NY tomorrow night and wants to discuss it, but I genuinely don't know what to think. AIBU?

Thankyou for the good wishes and advice.

I actually have no idea what strategies he will put in with his work because a month off will be unprecedented. Previously he's not lasted a week

It's amazing how perceptive people can be when they don't even know me! Thanks for bearing with me - I wasn't expecting a fraction of the responses. It's forced me to examine myself and I genuinely feel a lot calmer than I did the other day.

Alaia - none of us remain caught in amber. We all grow - and change. Remember that. The person that you were in your early 20s is not the same person you are now, and you'll be different again in 10/15 years' time.

Any LTR is a leap of faith, because you know that you aren't going to stay the same - you just have to hope that your partner's growth and changes will complement yours. I'm not the same person who exchanged vows with my H over 12 years ago and neither is he. But we have grown together and where our interests and dreams have occasionally diverged, we've worked together to incorporate them into our lives. This is crucial if any LTR is going to go the distance.

It honestly sounds as if your H has never given any thought to the fact that his family consists of six people, not just one. This polar expedition is a symptom; even if you agree that he should go, you know that in 6/12/18 months' time he'll be wanting to do something just as dangerous/outrageous/time consuming.

I said in a previous post that he is willing to throw everything material at a 'problem' except his time. You've said that there are lots of men like him and I don't doubt that's true. I think you need to take a step back though and acknowledge that you are probably being drawn in by confirmation bias though. He's surrounded by colleagues and friends who all earn telephone number salaries and who are a little bit bored, jaded and frightened of confronting their own mortality as they realise they won't live forever and a £1m bonus means jack shit on your deathbed. They look for ever more fantastic ways to spend their money, which will invariably involve some showing off about who can come up with the most inventive way of spending cash on entertainment.

Have you ever sat him down and asked him why he won't give his time to his family above anything else?

He's not an introspective person and kind of shuts down in those conversations or he can get very defensive. So not easy.

I think you probably need to persist in this type of conversation, though, op whether he likes it or not. MrDacres has really got to the crux of the matter here.

I actually have a good friend like MrDacres describes. He is also fifty this year, but not only has given his life to his job, but also has not got married or had children. I remember being in his huge flat once and he had a grand piano, and I thought, who is going to play it? He has two expensive cars he doesn't drive. He travels extensively. He is exhausted but does not know how to stop. He said last year he would wind down his practice this year, I am not sure it is happening yet.

He has not married or had DC, which he regrets, but appears to have given up on. He is introspective and self-aware, but last conversation we had - he had called me from outside a bar in Dublin where he was doing work socialising - he told me had not changed in the 25 years I had known him. I reflected on this, and the next time he said this, also when he was about to hit a bar, I said I did not want him to change, I just wanted him to stay alive.

This is a random story, which came to mind. But it might also be relevant. I assume you love your DH. But you cannot change him. You can change how you respond. You can question his judgement and stop pandering to his every need, because he is a grown man and it sets a bad example to DC. You can start to do your own thing, and negotiate compromises. But the person he is after fifty years, you cannot change, unless he is on board with that.

Your DH is super lucky. He has a good job, lots of opportunities as well as material security. Sure, he works hard for that and has five dependents to support, which is a pressure (I don't mean that in a negative sense, because he would not be able to have his job AND family without you), but he is lucky because he has you to make it all work.

My friend who paddles his own canoe is not so lucky. But that is not the point. If you take the point about growth, your DH has the opportunity to grow more into a father and an equal partner with you and in parenting. So, what you can do is give him, present him with those opportunities and expect him to take them up, to compromise his own needs, and also, crucially, to let you follow your own path too. What you choose to do job-wise now the children are older is your choice. Compromise as much as you feel comfortable with, but don't be comprised. You too have the opportunity to grow more.

I know very wealthy men like this: they are shit fathers and I have no respect or time for them.

It's invariably almost impossible for their wives to work because the men won't make any changes to make it possible.

At the heart of it, IMO, is a belief that because they earn a lot that is sufficient contribution and they are justified in doing what they wish with their time.

Cocoa and Dozer - it's a very inflexible mindset which you basically have to work around or choose to leave. If I'd been working since the DC our family would have probably falken apart.

A good friend of mine found out her DH had a 25 year old shacked up in an apartment. He ended up leaving his wife and 3 boys all under 12 for this Russian woman. My friend then had the added trauma of discovering she had breast cancer, so during her treatment, the now ex needed to step up and care for his DC during the week, not just weekends. His reaction was to persuade the new girlfriend to quit her job and be a SAHM to his DC! She managed it for about 6 months but couldn't cope and ended up leaving him and going back to Russia. Now this guy has had a breakdown. DH somehow got dragged in to help him salvage his company and stop it going down the pan otherwise he wouldn't have been able to meet the maintenance payments and school fees. My friend is recovering and has a new partner but it's been horrendous.

Has he actually decided to go on the North Pole trip? Did he consult you about it?

So like your friend you have chosen, so far, to put up with and work around it.

You always have choices.

Mega - it's a long thread now, I know! He's on about going for a month or around that. He did accept 3 months away from us is too long.

Yes I have worked around it and not realised it for the most part because when the 4 DC were younger there wasn't much chance to stop and think.

A month doesn't seem too long. I agree with other posters who've said this, OP, you sound as if you are a lovely person.

Yes you have put up with his ways for far too long- you're right he won't change overnight but a serious discussion is in order and I really do think you should go away for a few days at least to make him step up. One of these days something will happen (you might get the flu or have to deal with an elderly relative) and he will have to step up, best let him do it first in a more "planned" fashion.

That's a terrible story re your friend. Pleased things are looking up for her though.

Could you mention that for the benefit of the relationship going forward you should attend Relate together? It might help and it also highlights that you feel you are at crisis point?

It is, my husband is like this, we have been separated for four years and are in the process of divorcing. Believe me, trying to divorce someone who is inflexible (controlling in my case) is a fresh kind of hell. I am hopefully out the other side soon, and it was the right decision for me but there was other stuff beyond the kind of mindset you describe.

Your DH sounds like he can pull out the stops for his friend and should realise from that experience that wife and children are not to be taken for granted. I was reflecting on this thread and there must come a point in any long term relationship where children get older and both parties have to re-assess their aims etc.

Silly man for looking to the North pole etc, for interest and excitement when he hasn't 'explored' the personalities and capabilities of his four children. Right under his nose and doesn't realise how much he would get back if he only gave his time.

Just an thought if he is that rubbish at talking to you about these issues might it be an idea to write all your thoughts down and get him to read it.

Thankyou Dazoo.

I think he'll might freeze over before I could get him to Relate. He refuses to even go to the GP.
I did actually write everything down to explain about why I was going on the course I'm on now and it did help a lot actually. He seems to need time to absorb things sometimes and it's a good strategy.

Cocoa - It sounds like you have pulled through so much

Believe it or not, DH is not a frenetic as he used to be. He does love spending time with the DC in the sense he'll take them out for the day, but it's always me that's had to do everything to get them ready to go and all the stuff around the fun bits. I think a lot of men just don't "see" the grunt work unless you really force them to do it. It is getting easier now the DC are getting older though.

This isn't an issue about "men", but this specific man (and yes, there are others like him). Many, many men, including high earners, are good fathers and partners.

With your resources you could afford counselling (lots of options other than Relate). You could go alone if he is unwilling.

So he can prepare a journey to the arctic but not take his own kids out for the day without making sure they have snacks and coats etc? Or stay in with them and make spaghetti bolognese/baked potatoes/sandwiches and clear it up and push the dishes in the dishwasher?

I've never met anybody ex-boarding school or army who wasn't meticulously tidy and ordered.

You really do deserve better.

I've just read the whole thread and wanted to say you're doing just fine :)

Do continue to forge and nurture your own interests though, and advocate for your DC spending time with their dad.

Your wonderful children sound a credit to you!

Alaia, Relate do relationship counselling with individuals as well as couples, so that may well be helpful for you.

I didn't want to mention other women, but you did this yourself. It does seem that successful men are often with much younger attractive women, not saying that your husband is likely to stray. But just for your sake in case it does go wrong, and divorce can very difficult as CocoaLeaves says, you might be as well to build up your potential earning capacity and have an emergency fund.

PeaFace - well done on getting through the whole thing and thankyou. Yes I'm very lucky with the DC.

Purple - unfortunately it is very much as you describe, though I wouldn't say he is tidy with his own stuff. He doesn't leave his clothes dumped etc. But that's about it.

Proc - I hope it doesn't come to that, but I would be ok financially, unless he totally flipped and hid money offshore or something. That would be very out of character though. There is quite a lot of stuff in mine and the DC's names, but it would be complicated, I admit, because a lot of money is tied up in shares and investments abroad.

Would say he is tidy - sorry!

OP I know quite a few men like your DH; successful, ambitious, energetic.

To the outside world they often seen like real family men. They often have larger than average families and can be seen taking their DC for a skiing trip or supporting loudly at sports day. They always 'adore' their wives and lavish them with praise and affection.

However, the truth is they behave like single men, doing exactly as they please in terms of work and social life, without any real reference to their partners and children.

And they do this, because, and only because, they have a wife who allows it to happen. Nay facilitates it. Defends it. Excuses it.

But children are not daft. They know perfectly well where they sit in the pecking order. And that has a terrible impact on them as they grow.

Hmm, Carl. Are you sure you are not getting dangerously close to victim blaming? I'm not at all sure that getting such a man to change his behaviour is as easy as his wife putting her foot down.