To wonder why England wants to keep Scotland?

[user1481215005]

Or am I being really thick? NS has been causing no end of grief the past few years always complaining about how bad Scotland has it (despite receiving more money for Scotland than Scotland gives back) also promising English votes for English laws and then changing that when something she didn't like can up. Her financial plan depends on the North Sea oil. If Scotland keeps rights to that it'll last fifty years tops before oil runs out. She just seems to be a constant pain and wants special treatment which wales and NI don't ever seem to get. I do love Scotland but right now I'm inclined to cheerily wave them off and wish the good luck.

When you guys used to vote labour often you were the securing vote for a labour government?

No. Scottish votes have made a difference in very few UK elections.

England doesn't have an English parliament which means laws for just us are voted on by snps as well even when it does not concern them

Er, EVEL?

You make a good point though. It would make sense for England to have it's own devolved parliament too, and then some overall government that has the nations represented equally. Sadly, that is not going to happen.

The thing is that even if 100% of Scottish voters one way, it makes no difference to the outcome if England vote the other way. So you have 2 countries wanting different things but we have to toe the line with what English voters want. How is that fair?

glitter I asked my brother tonight what he was thinking about voting. He said he will probably vote for independence because he is fed up of the lies from Westminster. I guess scottish politicians can lie too but at least we can vote them out if that happens. Currently we have to put up with a party we did not want and lie down and take the lies too. There's no trust. Why should we trust Theresa May?

i can't believe we are going to have to go through this again. I am English but have been educated, lived, worked and paid my taxes in Scotland most of my life. My children were born and raised here. Without outing myself i hold a senior position in business support and have met with the First Minister and other MSPs on many occasions. During the last referendum i was told to "fuck off back to England", "you shouldn't get a vote, you're not Scottish", "go back to where you fucking came from" and asked "what the fuck do you know about the Scottish economy?" . Erm, rather more than most people!
Indyref 2, combined with Brexit, is going to kill the Scottish Economy which is already in defecit. Big corporates will reactivate the plans they had in place last time to ship money, staff and business out of Scotland due to the instability. Money which should have been used by the SNP on the day job of roads, education, NHS and business will instead form a war chest to be spend on propaganda.
Some Scots may well want their "freedom" - mostly those who believe Braveheart was real - but at what price?

If Scotland leaves, could they take N'orn, too?

Demented
Lest we forget the scare stories and mendacity...
Before the Independence Referendum in 2014, The Mail online (and various Westminster pro-Union voices) headlined with: "How an independent Scotland could lose more than one in ten public sector jobs to England."
After the Independence vote, when we were 'safely' under the protection of the UK, here's BBC News online 2015 with a shock announcement about Scottish Public Sector jobs: "Major job losses with HMRC Scottish office closures." Swiftly followed by the Guardian headline:
"HMRC to employ 2,800 staff at Croydon tax 'super centre'". As a central-Scotland HMRC worker noted in the Comments section below that article: "Good luck to the people of Croydon for the extra jobs, but I'm disgusted that 2500 jobs will be sacrificed in Scotland to make way for those new vacancies." And as for "The only way Scotland can stay in the EU is to stay in the UK"...

itsall. Does having two Scottish parents, being born, brought up and educated in Scotland not make me Scottish then?

I keep wondering the same. Let them leave. Let them fund their social care, education, nhs with the oil from the north sea they claim that can sustain them (the middleeast are selling oil dirt cheap at the moment).

They can also take their share of the uk debt with them on their way out.

Op - so what's the point of the union & the rest of us voting on anything if England can just over rule everyone else ?

I rather feel it would be interesting to see the outcome of an English referendum on this. I grew up in the NE (Scottish side of the wall!!) - Scotland is no more remote from most of the UK outside London & the SE. As some one who now lives in the South East, it is very clear that a lot of people have no idea what goes on elsewhere not just in Scotland. But I am tired of all the English-bashing that goes on. I was in the NE in summer 2015 and we nipped over the border to Eyemouth as DD2 was keen to say she'd been to Scotland. I have never felt so uncomfortable and unwelcome anywhere in my life - it has totally put me off going there and I speak as someone who used to holiday in NE Scotland most summers as a child.

Incidentally, my area of the SE was one of the highest IN votes for the EU referendum - do we get to re-run that?

Frankly, I feel Scotland should go - I think the damage has already been done.

I think if there was a referendum in England about whether Scotland should be an independent nation, there would be a vote in favour. Some would vote because they consider Scotland a separate country, others because they think Scotland receives more from the UK treasury than it pays in.

i am also fed up with NS whinging on ...so Scotland ( majority of anyway) voted to remain in EU , but as they are part of a democratic country they should accept the democratically decided decision. Like all the other areas in the UK that had majority remain voters.....shall we all start demanding independence so we can actually stay in the EU ?

NS is basically a bad loser.

It's not that "England" always outvotes Scotland. It's that Scotland is a numerically small part of the political entity known as the UK.

Londoners could make the same complaint right now, but not the Welsh.

What a lot of these objections amount to is the belief that 50%+1 of 4.5m should veto the other 55m.

And its true that a No vote was the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU. An independent Scotland would have had to apply for membership, as it still would.

softkitty i am interested to see what the SNP will sell as the "pros" since they did base alot of it on the oil. This is a problem since, as you say, its dirt cheap elsewhere. So even though it is likely to last 100 years or more, the costs to extract it is just not worthwhile. Rigs are ageing and need a lot of maintenance etc.
Renewable energy, fishing, pharmaceauticals, video games, whisky, gin..we have plenty to keep money in our country.
Im sure we will take our share of debt, i have 0 problem with that and i'd happily pay more tax to put into our country if it means we dont have to deal with Westminster any more and i have a feeling that due to the horrendous track record of recent years politics, this one may just tip it over to majority for independence. Interesting times eh but i am so sick of the language English people are using towards us for daring to ask what would be best for our country. I don't hate English people, i like touring England and would hope you enjoy visiting Scotland, but why are people so against us trying to better ourselves, or at least exploring the option to?

I would love to have a UK vote to see if we still wanted to keep Scotland. I am fed up with the SNP and would vote Scotland out.

the barnett formula
Scotland receives more per head than England
An extra £1,623 per head, or 19 per cent, is given to Scotland compared to England. In 2013 Scotland got £10,152 per head, Wales got £9,709 and England got £8,529. Why was it created? The Barnett Formula was designed as a temporary measure but has lasted for 30 years.
which is not the same as Scotland being subsidised as it does not account for the tax receipts from Scotland (which may have been higher before the oil price slump) but it is fair to say Scotland gets a very good deal from being part of the UK. If we all had a vote on Scotland being independent I would vote for them to leave the UK if only to stop the whinging.

others because they think Scotland receives more from the UK treasury than it pays in.

And what a hoot that will be when they find out its not true!

The Scottish people have already decided in the last ref, we want to stay as part of the UK. NS doesnt speak for all scots and has clearly forgotten the result of the last ref, we dont want what she is talking about.

She is a total idiot to talk about another ref and quite honestly everyone i know is fed up of hearing about it. I understand how the rest of the UK must also be fed up of it and want to tell Scotland to fuck off but please dont, we like you all! Half my family is English and I dont want to take a passport to visit.

itsall. Does having two Scottish parents, being born, brought up and educated in Scotland not make me Scottish then?

I didn't say that at all. The point is that defining someones right to "belong" to a country based on blood is a bit unpleasant IMO.

purits maybe you could start a petition! It would be much simpler if England did vote us out :)

All of my Scottish friends voted to stay in the UK. They also voted to stay in the EU. But now that it may be an either-or they would choose the EU over the UK. If it comes down to choice between the two,* it would be completely fucking stupid to choose an isolationist UK over the EU.

*And it very much might because the EU won't let Spain stand in the way of making sure any country that leaves the UK is poorer for it

As an English person living in Scotland and blessed/cursed with a rather posh 'home counties' accent I felt really hated during the last vote. I cannot separate the 'yes' vote to an 'anti english' vote. It was awful, my children were even singled out and verbally abused. I'm terrified of a second vote.

Whisky2014:
At the time of the indyref, the only way that Scotland could remain in the EU was to stay in the UK.
Sturgeons choice of dates for indyref2 don't give her much chance of staying in the EU after Brexit. Which leads me to believe that Brexit is just an excuse. She's on record as saying independence transcends everything, I guess that includes the truth.

I cannot separate the 'yes' vote to an 'anti english' vote.

I'm really sorry that has happened to.you Must be a local thing as neither I nor any of my English friends have experienced that.

redacto we are going to be leaving the EU. That is certain. We were told the only way to remain was by voting No, so we did and look! I dont care about rejoining the EU and i doubt er could anyway as Spain would veto us joining. Im happy to be just Scotland on its own.