To wonder why England wants to keep Scotland?

[user1481215005]

Or am I being really thick? NS has been causing no end of grief the past few years always complaining about how bad Scotland has it (despite receiving more money for Scotland than Scotland gives back) also promising English votes for English laws and then changing that when something she didn't like can up. Her financial plan depends on the North Sea oil. If Scotland keeps rights to that it'll last fifty years tops before oil runs out. She just seems to be a constant pain and wants special treatment which wales and NI don't ever seem to get. I do love Scotland but right now I'm inclined to cheerily wave them off and wish the good luck.

itsall. I have not said anywhere that someone's right to "belong" to a country is based on blood.

Spinger, leaving the EU and seeking global markets is not isolationist, rather the opposite. This thread is about Scotland though, they are at serious risk of being out of the UK and spending a few years outside of the EU as well, (not that the SNP care a toss about that).

Why would we?!

Fourkids, i understand this as i was witness to some nasty comments. People were total arseholes during the last one! Im sorry you had to put up with that kinda of shit, no need for it at all

Some of the most inspiring leaders / writers / philosophers have been Scottish. I would love them to remain in the union as they enrich our cultural heritage.

Itsallgoingtobefine
My point is that English votes for English laws was agreed on by all parties then chucked out of the window at first notice

There's no evidence that the UK intends to be isolationist. It wants to negotiate and trade on its own terms and be responsible for itself. Not so very different to what the Scot Nats say they want.

Given the EU's behaviour on the world stage, there's every reason to believe that the UK will be less isolationist - except with regards to the EU and only then if the EU opts for intransigence.

But OP thats what happens to us every time!

Whisky
Not in things that only concern Scotland (as far as I know) the person for each child (whatever it's called) and the baby boxes. All of these only concern the Scots so only their parliament votes on it. If I am wrong please do tell me but as far as I know Scottish only laws are voted on only by Scottish parliament. English only laws are voted on by the British government (snps included)

"it is highly unlikely that Scotland will ever be stupid enough to have Tories in charge"

This rather overlooks the inconvenient truth that the party which came second in Scotland is the Conservatives.

SNP only did well because it cornered the left wing vote, at a time when people thought the independence question had gone away for a couple of decades (so it was safe to vote for then). That may well now evaporate. Labour's in pieces, and the Tory vote will hold up.

The basis for Indyref2 seems to be that Scotland wants to remain in the EU. Scotland is not in the EU. The United Kingdom is. Scotland would have to apply as an independent to be part of the EU, and even if they were to be accepted ( Spain has already said they will veto this), it will take years. Meanwhile,back in Scotland.....Not part of the UK, not part of the EU and with a massive budget deficit and no currency...

I'm a fair bit Scots (mostly Irish though). I think it's fair to say that the English never captured our hearts. We mourn the loss of language, lands, all the wars etc. I'm not sure that leaving the union will help rectify that though. What will happen to royal properties in Scotland if they leave?

Just got back in to see the SNP mantra of "it's Scotland's oil!!" is still being swallowed wholesale. Perhaps the link below will help, explaining as it does that "Under the present arrangement the oil tax revenues are assigned to an economic region set up by the UK government, which is called the UK Continental Shelf (UKCS). This means that oil resources are not officially assigned to Scotland but instead to a region distinct from the British mainland "

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20042070

It's also true that an independent Scotland would quite rightly have a claim to other UK assets they'd contributed to, but then they'd also have to share the national debt - something which, at least so far, has seemed less palatable

As has been said, we don't know how oil and gas would be shared out since Scotland decided to remain in the UK, but if that changes it's perhaps worth remembering that geography isn't the only possible criteria; apparently a per capita share was advocated by some experts, which may well have a very different outcome

I'm really sorry that has happened to.you sad Must be a local thing as neither I nor any of my English friends have experienced that.

Nor did I.

The title of this thread does seem rather goady tbh.

I think we're better with Scotland but have to admit that there seems to be a constant call to leave us does make me feel a little resentful, like an abiding relationship " I want to leave so convince me to stay" countless times

The article makes clear that the current arrangement re North Sea oil is only relevant while Scotland remains in the UK. On independence there would be a division according to the relevant international treaties, and whichever way you slice the cake Scotland would get most of it.

Not true, by the way, that Scotland would be entitled to a proportionate share of UK assets and liabilities. The starting point at international law is that it would have neither, although one would expect the matter to be part of negotiations.

Btw, I had a bad time in Scotland- lots of anti-English remarks.

I live outside the UK now. No one comments on where I'm from except a....Scottish work colleague

Btw, I had a bad time in Scotland- lots of anti-English remarks

I'm sorry that happened to you, it's bang out of order. I experienced the same living in England, lots of nasty comments. It makes you feel really shit.

I'm not sure if England wants to keep Scotland, I've not seen any polls. I think the Conservative Government wants to keep access to North sea continental shelf reserves at present. I believe currently they are making a loss, I think of £180M in the last FY due to amount of tax breaks given to oil firms, but there is a big push on to increase production. Personally I'm not sure it will work, but the last three term Conservative Government underwrote their final term in part with tax breaks to the affluent funded by UKCS income and old habits die hard. When you see what Norway did with the income from their oil and gas reserves, it really highlights what a profligate waste this was, but that was the policy then, and maximum economic exploitation remains the policy now.

Another delightful person who thinks Scotland gains more than it contributes. Maybe do some actual research instead of believing the crap in the mainstream media.

The article makes clear that the current arrangement re North Sea oil is only relevant while Scotland remains in the UK

You're right, but then I guess it can hardly refer to arrangements around a situation (independent Scotland) which doesn't exist?

On independence there would be a division according to the relevant international treaties, and whichever way you slice the cake Scotland would get most of it

Genuinely interested to know how you reach that conclusion? Most of what I've read suggests that there'd be a long way to go before anything was decided - which is, after all, the way it often goes with negotiations

I think Scotland does benefit more than it contributes....but if it can remain party of the EU it will be better off.

I think the UK will be worse financially if Scotland leaves as Trident would have to be relocated. I can't imagine that being cheap.

Although there are probably those jumping up and down with joy becuase jobs would be created down south.

Genuinely interested to know how you reach that conclusion? Most of what I've read suggests that there'd be a long way to go before anything was decided - which is, after all, the way it often goes with negotiations

With regards to maritime boundaries, there are international laws about them, and if a boundary is in dispute then the default is a kind of equidistant line out from the border. The maritime border is actually one of the simpler issues.

if a boundary is in dispute then the default is a kind of equidistant line out from the border

That's interesting, because I recall reading about some debate as to whether a potential "maritime border" would follow the SW/NE line of the land border, or if it should simply extend into the sea in a straight west to east line

Off to bed now but will go on trying to find it in the morning ... I guess what I'm really trying to say, though, is that if such matters are set in stone, why would there be any need for discussion?

saor

Thanks, and same to you.

puzzled

Basically what itsall said. In the last few decades there have a number of treaties that have granted signatories the right to control the resources in the open sea, up to a border defined by various means. In some cases these areas are extremely large compared to the country (check out the UK's - its huge because it still rules islands here and there around the globe).

If the UK/Scottish maritime border was set the same way Scotland would get 90%+-of the oil.