Judge's warning to drunk women

[FirstShinyRobe]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

AIBU to think she had a marvellous platform with her retirement speech to issue instead a warning to men not to rape women?

Thyme.You either think women are in some way responsible for their own rape, or you don't.

How on earth is telling people to be careful about not drinking too much ALSO saying that if they do they are responsible if they get raped. That's ridiculous. It ALWAYS the rapists fault for raping. However, it's still sensible not to drink too much.

Unfortunately we live in a cruel world with very nasty people about, while we cannot control their behaviour, you have to take your own steps to keep safe from attack, be it rape, assault, whatever!

YANBU to think that it was a bit of a wasted opportunity of a person in a position of authority to advise men not to be rapists, totally true. I think on a societal level that is entirely what needs saying, again and again, and at every opportunity, so yes, wasted opportunity there.

On an individual and personal level, and until such nirvana in which men show care and respect to all women no matter how inebriated they are or how short their skirt is, I will continue to chose to pretty much live by her advice.

Crap, but there you have it.
I am hell bent on raising my sons not to be rapists, but if I had daughters I would advise them to be careful.
Not because I hold women responsible for men's behaviour or guardians of men's sexual exploits, but because I'd be protective of my (theoretical) daughter's safety.

Like I said, crap, not fair, not right, but probably practical and wise.

Still, massive missed chance to make an important point publicly and on a huge platform. Shame.

Tell them whatever you want but I certainly wouldnt give my daughter the impression that there ars things she can do to prevent rape. Rapists cause rape. Not alcohol, or short skirts, or flirting. Just rapists. If you don't meet one of those then you won't be raped. Drunk or sober.

Agree AreYouNice

Her statement was shit, but that wasn't my point.

She could have chosen to highlight the male behaviour, but didn't. Maybe she thinks most men are rapists when a drunk woman is about.

GladAllOver - where are the stats quoted to support that?

TheStoic
Good luck to you if you think being sober prevents rape

FFS, not a single person has said anything like that.

It's sensible for men not to drink too much so that they don't commit rape. Has a judge said words to this effect recently? Stay sober boys or you might rape. I doubt it. As usual it's women being told that their behaviour should be modified.

But if you do meet one, then your chances of fighting him off, and defending yourself are much higher if you are not blind drunk.

She did actually say that a woman can do what they want and drink whatever they like but that if they do, they are more susceptible to rape and she had seen it again and again in her career.

I hate to say it, I really do, but this is similar advice to which I've given my two DDs. I feel it's my duty as a mum to tell them that rapists are more likely to pick on a drunk woman on their own. So my advice when they have been on a night out has been for them to stick with a group of their friends and to look after each other.

Oh thyme

How wrong you are.

Do your children a favour and educate them about the dangers of drink. Put your own silly agenda aside.

FFS, not a single person has said anything like that.

So what is the benefit in not drinking too much? Why are we advising women this?

Is it to prevent hangovers?

But being sober does not protect women from rape. The only thing that protects women from rape is not meeting a rapist.

So do you think it's a woman's fault if she gets drunk and then raped. Because it sure sounds like some of you think like that to me.

I respectfully disagree theonly

People make choices drink that they wouldn't make sober.

A friend of mine left a nightclub with a man she'd never met. She narrowly avoided a nasty encounter. She freely admits that she wouldn't have done this sober.

Men are always to blame for raping women. No one is denying this but it's sensible to take a responsible attitude to the amount you drink

Surely the point is why should women have to protect themselves from men? Just why the fuck why? Why can't men learn to treat women with respect?

Women are in no way responsible for being raped.

But why would you put yourself in a more vulnerable position than you need to be? Rapists will look for women who are less likely to be able to fight back, because they're basically cowards, so why wouldn't you try to keep as safe as possible?

You wouldn't walk through the centre of a crowded city with an open bag (I assume), so why knowingly put yourself at greater risk than you need to be when the potential consequences are far, far worse than a stolen purse?

I don't understand the mindset that it's a human right to get as drunk as you want and if anyone suggests that's a bad idea they're either joyless or victim-blaming.

Rapists are to blame for rape. But if you can take some steps to minimise your own risk, that surely isn't a bad idea is it?

dontact

I think if you read the comments you'll find that no one is suggesting this.

So TheOnly what advise should parents give to their DDs when they are 18 and going off for a night out?

So you think if a woman gets drunk she deserves to get raped because she didnt stick to orange juice all night in case she encontered a rapist.

GladAllOver - where are the stats quoted to support that?
You don't need numbers to prove something that is blindingly obvious.
If a man is drunk in the street he is less able to defend himself against having his wallet or phone stolen. It's still the mugger's fault but he may not have attempted it if the guy was sober and alert.

There is a difference between pragmatic advice and blaming someone.

I agree with the pragmatic advice.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people, including other girls, who will say it is someone's fault of they are raped when they are drunk, which is a different thing, not true and absolutely awful.

The horrible danger is that if someone does drink, against the advice, and then does get raped they may not tell, or wrongly blame themselves.

Now I would also give the advice not to get drunk to a son if I had one. A few men I knew, who were even supposedly friends, sexually assaulted me (grabs) when they were drunk. In those days one said nothing. I would say don't get drunk and absolutely do not touch a girl/woman when you have been drinking, because your brain will be skewed, give you bad judgement and you might commit a crime.

Quite, Newcross.

I don't perceive what she says as victim blaming. I think the judge does reiterate that several times,

'She said women "are entitled to do what they like" but asked them to "please be aware there are men out there who gravitate towards a woman who might be more vulnerable than others".'

I don't think there is anything wrong with issuing a warning to take care, be aware that there are men with terrible intentions out there. She's not saying that the rapist is justified because the woman is drunk in any way. The rapist is culpable completely for what they do.
She is warning that there are individuals who specifically look out for and target women who may be less aware because they are drunk. That they will watch and wait.

I would definitely tell my daughter when she gets older to be careful
Not to drink too much, much as I'd say don't leave your drink unattended. It's not saying she would be responsible, but warning to be aware that there are people who can perpetrate terrible crimes.
I don't see how it's a black and white argument, whereby she's saying that women are responsible for being raped.