To think this is unfair on this 3 year old

[ogbu]

My friends and I go on a night out every fortnight. We arrange childcare for the night. My son goes to his dads anyway on alternate weekends and most of us have a partner at home or get a babysitter.

Now our friend hasnt been able to find anyone who is willing to babysit as her daughter sleeps so on our nights out she gets dressed, then takes her daughter at 9pm to a childminder that does overnight care. She takes her in a taxi.

We don't go clubbing we're too old for that! But we have a meal and a few drinks. This friend always gets a bit too drunk. She then orders a taxi which I sometimes share. She gets to the childminders house in the taxi and picks her daughter up. Her daughter is handed over to her tired, disorientated and distressed as she's suddenly been woken up and put into a taxi. She also takes a while to get to sleep at the childminders so goes about 11pm to sleep so has only been asleep for about three hours at this point.

She then has a 20 minute taxi ride and my friend takes her home and into bed. At this point it's 3:30am easily. She then sleeps until late that day or wakes at her usual time as is grumpy.

I've always suggested my friend just collect her in the morning and give her a full nights sleep and her a chance to sober up so she's not picking her up drunk. But my friend will not even consider that as she then has to get a taxi in the morning or the hassle of the journey by public transport when she's hungover. She would rather pick her up after her night out.

I've not discussed this with friends and don't want to. so that's why I'm asking here.

I understand she has no one to have her daughter and she wants a night out. But there are other options.

We regularly meet at hers, we have day time meet ups, she could come for just the meal and be back earlier. I'm sure she could find someone to babysit at her house.

I just feel sorry for the daughter being kept awake until 10pm, woken at 2am to be transported into a taxi with her drunk mother, then having to stay awake for the taxi ride, taken home, put to bed again. Having her sleep pattern disrupted like that.

If it was necessary than that's different. But all this is so her Mum can go clubbing.

It's not a child protection concern. But AIBU to feel sorry for the little girl?

Thing is though, that's great that others coped well with having this as a child. This girl is not, if she is "distressed" and upset by it it's clearly not working for her.

The only time I get a break is when i'm at uni or work in the evenings and weekends when DH is home to mind them because we can't afford to shell out for childcare or babysitters. It's not ideal but at this stage we are mature enough to understand that it's not forever and as parents their needs have to be prioritized sometimes.

Also, maybe the OP doesn't come from a time/area where this is normal behaviour. I'm 30 and from a really deprived area and this wasn't acceptable to us either.

A childminder hands over a child at 3 am to an inebriated parent every fortnight.
That is awful.
I also find it odd that this childminder takes other children in overnight and is not registered.
Big red flags re child protection issues for me.

Evil triumphs because good people do nothing.
I know I'll be flamed.

hollyisalovelyname:

I'm with you. I'm not against parents having a few drinks, but the middle of the night handover and travel takes things too far for me. As a fortnightly event, this is regularly disturbed sleep.

Why can't you be a bit more accommodating for your friend as a group? Why not go out at 7pm and home for midnight ish? Your friend would find it much easier to get a babysitter for those hours, and even if she kept the childminder arrangement, she could drop at 6.30, child could go to bed at a normal time, get 5 hours sleep before being carried home.

I don't do this with my 3yo, but I know I definitely could without waking her up or disturbing her sleep much. I stayed late at my mother's once as DH had to take a local relative to A&E. we put DD to bed at my mum's at a normal time, then when DH came back at midnight we scooped her up in her PJs, popped her in her car seat and drove the 30 mins home. Popped her in bed with me at home and she barely woke up. Up normal time in the morning and completely fine.

We quite often put her in PJs and brush teeth if we need to leave somewhere around bedtime, let her fall asleep in the car and carry her up to bed when we get home.

Cheby, we like a proper night out. My friend does not have to come and comes to our other Meetups.
We're not giving it up so one friend doesn't have to pick her daughter up in the morning (or make any other more suitable arrangement).

She could also leave earlier. There's nothing stopping her leaving between 11-12.

Could you perhaps on occasion forgo the night out and offer to babysit so that your friend can go out? Much more helpful than wringing your hands and feeling sorry for the 'poor' child.

I wouldn't expect anyone else to cancel or change their plans because I was incapable of staying sober and not distressing my child.

That's her responsibility not the OP's.

Ogbu I understand where you are coming from on this, however I do think it sounds as though you feel as though it's your responsibility to maintain links with this woman so she has someone to speak to.

You're not obligated to speak to her if you don't like her, and it doesn't sound like you or your other friends think much of her tbh. I once had to make a judgement call with a close friend and the way she was dealing with her kids, it cost me our friendship but I couldn't not say anything because it pissed me off so much.

Queenelsarules, why on earth would she do that?

Stop the press - mother uses childcare.

Your friend is being very selfish. Sound like she isn't poor so why doesn't she use a reputable nanny or babysitting service? The sitters are CRB checked and have references.

I think it is unfair on the child, and if it is happening now at 3, I guess it will carry on happening as the child gets older and more aware of her mum smelling odd, acting funny, talking loudly when she is woken in the middle of the night to be taken back home. One of my most hated memories is of my pissed parents doing stuff like this.

I understand the woman in the op needs a social life, but think that doesn't have to mean getting pissed until 2 am fortnightly. She also needs to sort out proper childcare, because this childminder does not sound like she is.

Mountain - because it would be a nice thing to do. And my understanding of friendships is that you're nice to each other.

Stop the press - mother uses childcare.

Mother uses childcare which entails her getting her child out of bed at 10 pm and 3 am knowing that it upsets said child, when she could easily avoid it by getting a babysitter in. Slightly different spin, Kiroro?

Mega -,rtft - she can't get a babysitter in.

To all the people who've never done this and are talking about the child's distress...
We do this, as does everyone we socialise with, - when you scoop your child up at 3am, if they wake they are indeed disorientated. This lasts approx 1minute, they are then full of the adventure and enjoy the stars, and love being tucked back in to their own bed. I think lots of the posters commentating how bad it is actually have no experience of it.

Another who thinks it's unfair on the child. Would be completely different if the child was enjoying a party with other kids and then fell asleep and was removed later. This child doesn't like going there, and every 2 weeks is very often.

It's very selfish of the mother. She should make arrangements that the child is happy with - whether that's both stay home, a babysitter, or sleepover with friends. Mother's social life is important but should not come before the happiness of the child.

And the OP sounds entirely reasonable. Of course you can disagree with one thing a friend does whilst still being their friend.

arethereanyleftatall

it's not so much about temporarily waking the child at 3am - it's about whether they are upset and distressed at having to spend an evening with a childminder and then be woken up. If the child is fine with it (and especially if they are having a fun party like it sounds as if yours are) then there's nothing wrong with it at all and they will probably have great memories of it when they are older

she can't get a babysitter in - actually she could get a babysitter in, she chooses not to because of some weird dynamic between herself and her parents where she is living in a house provided by them and they apparently feel free to let themselves in at all hours and comment on her parenting and lifestyle.

That's true carefree. I was just pointing out that the snap shot of 1 minute that the op sees the child after just being woken up, might not tell the whole story.

Blimey! Where do you get the money to go out for a meal and drinking until 3am every other week! My DH and I earn good money but we can only afford to go out once a month for dinner with the kids (no alcohol).

Your friend sounds selfish and needs to grow up and realise life isn't all about her. What on earth is she going to do when her daughter is at school and can't sleep the morning away.

arethereanyleftatall:

I remember, vividly, being dragged out of bed in the middle of the night to go to foster carers when my mum went into hospital to give birth. Not traumatising but not an adventure - don't romanticise this. Add a taxi and a couple of drunks and it's hardly Swallows and Amazons, is it?

OP, I'd be concerned in your position too. Has the child been asleep before she is dropped at the childminder at 9pm? Is she visibly distressed? I'd be checking whether or not this childminder is ofsted registered.

I don't think the situation is ideal but there are worse things that happen, if the childminder is registered then the child is safe and the disturbed sleep isn't too much of an issue, it's whether or not she's asleep or distressed at drop off that would concern me.

I'd be reluctant to change my own childcare arrangements too, but could your night out start a bit earlier? That way the child is dropped off in the evening time and your friend might be more willing to leave at a reasonable time rather than 2am? She sound so lonely and desperate to maintain friendships which is understandable, if she doesn't come on nights out she probably feels like she's not part of the friendship group. I'd be speaking to her about being so drunk though if she's more than a bit tipsy.

Bit of a different scenario trifle

but the friend socialises at other times than these fortnightly big nights out, doesn't she? (I thought it said somewhere in the op's posts)

If she is desperate and lonely, then helping out with that specific thing seems like a better idea, as going out and getting shitfaced every 2 weeks isn't necessarily going to help with that.

And I do still remember being dragged out of bed at stupid o clock by pissed parents, and falling asleep at my school desk or being late for school, it was horrible. Now I know the child in the op is younger, but hopefully the mum will sort out some better child care when her child starts school.

No-one is saying she shouldn't be able to go out, but that maybe she should come up with a different childcare solution or not have quite such a bender when she does go out.