To think this is unfair on this 3 year old

[ogbu]

My friends and I go on a night out every fortnight. We arrange childcare for the night. My son goes to his dads anyway on alternate weekends and most of us have a partner at home or get a babysitter.

Now our friend hasnt been able to find anyone who is willing to babysit as her daughter sleeps so on our nights out she gets dressed, then takes her daughter at 9pm to a childminder that does overnight care. She takes her in a taxi.

We don't go clubbing we're too old for that! But we have a meal and a few drinks. This friend always gets a bit too drunk. She then orders a taxi which I sometimes share. She gets to the childminders house in the taxi and picks her daughter up. Her daughter is handed over to her tired, disorientated and distressed as she's suddenly been woken up and put into a taxi. She also takes a while to get to sleep at the childminders so goes about 11pm to sleep so has only been asleep for about three hours at this point.

She then has a 20 minute taxi ride and my friend takes her home and into bed. At this point it's 3:30am easily. She then sleeps until late that day or wakes at her usual time as is grumpy.

I've always suggested my friend just collect her in the morning and give her a full nights sleep and her a chance to sober up so she's not picking her up drunk. But my friend will not even consider that as she then has to get a taxi in the morning or the hassle of the journey by public transport when she's hungover. She would rather pick her up after her night out.

I've not discussed this with friends and don't want to. so that's why I'm asking here.

I understand she has no one to have her daughter and she wants a night out. But there are other options.

We regularly meet at hers, we have day time meet ups, she could come for just the meal and be back earlier. I'm sure she could find someone to babysit at her house.

I just feel sorry for the daughter being kept awake until 10pm, woken at 2am to be transported into a taxi with her drunk mother, then having to stay awake for the taxi ride, taken home, put to bed again. Having her sleep pattern disrupted like that.

If it was necessary than that's different. But all this is so her Mum can go clubbing.

It's not a child protection concern. But AIBU to feel sorry for the little girl?

I know that, that's why I asked about buggy as guessing a lot of three year olds don't have anymore. Would also make sleeping bag difficult which someone suggested.
I guess you can just belt them in legally but they wouldn't be high enough would they?

I would feel like a prize twat doing this to my kids personally. What childminder has kids from 10pm til 3am. Just fucking bizarre!! I wouldn't dream of dragging my kids off to someone's house at 10pm at night. Children need their sleep to develop.

I don't even care if I sound like I'm judging. This is just ridiculous.

OP, say something to your friend.

Yes, legally you don't need a car seat in a taxi and could just strap her in but in a crash, a 3 year old with no car seat could potentially be very seriously injured.
This risk could easily be avoided though by taking the car seat to the childminders.

And if it's true what you say about this woman stopping her ex from seeing the girl even tho he's a good father, I would question the integrity of this woman and probably wouldn't want to associate with her at all.

Who in their right mind stops kids seeing their other parent (assuming no history of drug use, sex offences, DV etc)?

If OP was writing about a bloke who left his kids with a "childminder" cough cough from 10pm til 3am every fortnight and had prevented the mother from having access to the child, I'm sure the responses on here would be different entirely.

OP - bite the bullet and say something or bin this 'friend' off

I feel sorry for the poor childminder to be honest - I wouldn't allow it and would say no you collect her in the morning and pay me the extra - fancy getting her to wake up at 3 in the morning to hand a child over

The poor child. There are also risks involved with her being intoxicated. Might be worth asking her if she knows there is criminal offence involving being drunk in charge of a minor. Not worth the risk just because she can't be arsed to go and collect her daughter the next day.

Ok. So this thread has moved on and this woman is being defended because she needs to go out every 2 weeks for her social life - it's hardly often, would be worse if she didn't etc for her mental health

What a load of shit!

I've had TWO nights out in four years! Where the hell does this single parent get the money from to be going out on the piss once a fortnight??!

100% agree with the poster who said it's piss poor parenting.

It absolutely is. When you have a child, their needs, their emotional wellbeing comes first. I can't imagine ever abandoning either of my toddlers at a childminders whilst I went out on the lash with the intention of picking them up drunk later on.

What awful memories to leave with your children - their first memories.

Anyone who thinks this is ok clearly has very low parenting standards!!!

OP you are right to be concerned but I think you need to stop pissing about yourself and just tell her straight she's out of order. No one needs a night out to go and get drunk. Ridiculous.

It's not ideal, she can't be that drunk if she can appear to be sober, so I say leave her be if she continues to ignore other suggestions.

I would try to persuade her that it's in her dds best interests to see her dad.

OP - what would your view be if your "friend" worked shifts that meant, as a single parent, she had to pick her DD up at 3am?

I think everyone is really bigging up the trauma involved for the child here. As a PP said, this would last for a minute or two at most. There has been no suggestion that this mother is staggering around extremely drunk, vomiting etc. I can think of far worse things than this.

HopefullyAnonymous for starters it is an entirely different situation doing something of necessity. Working to provide for your child, not spending your money on getting drunk and taxis. And if you were picking a child up after work you wouldn't be intoxicated!!

But there is no suggestion that she does not "provide for her child", or that she appears intoxicated. OP actually said that she appears sober, which most people would struggle to do after more than a few drinks. I'll admit it's not the most convenient childcare setup I've ever heard of, but feeling sorry for the child (which implies they are suffering in some way) is taking it too far.

I am saying this as a massive party animal - I wouldn't be comfortable with her arrangement being the regular and normal situation allowing her to go out. I've had my kids with me at a friends when it's gone way later than planned and felt bad taking them home late and sleepy. But that's a one off / rare thing. I wouldn't feel good having my regular social arrangements rely on having to disrupt my kids sleep once a fortnight and doesn't that also mean the sitter has to stay awake until such time as she's done partying and ready to go home ? Is that time pre agreed or random? If random also seems massively unfair to the sitter.

i have often solved this issue by having my friend with kids come for a sleepover. The kids play then go to bed then myself and friend can have wine and gossip in a safe environment where no one need be disturbed. Perhaps until she has a better arrangement you could suggest similar- especially if your house is empty ! She could put her kid to bed and you could have an in house party!

This friend is relatively new to the scene and the op and her friends don't want to change their long standing arrangements. The op does lots of other things with this friend, similar to what you suggest expat The op is concerned for the child and she is right in that it's not great, however if the alternative is that the friend can't come out because of interfering parents, then I suppose disturbing the child's sleep once a fortnight isn't the worse thing in the world.
Another pp said ok for work but not leisure, but surely her mental health is important too.

I struggle to understand how people can spend that sort of money twice a month though. £40 babysitter, taxi two ways, meal and drinks out = a lot of money that could be spent on the family, but I recognise that's my issue not theirs.

People on here saying they can think of far worse things for the child might have a point.

BUT I can think of much better suitauions for the child to be in which trumps the current situation the child has to endure fortnightly. Let the child sleep in her own bed for a full night without being disturbed fgs! If it was my friend doing this I'd tell her to get a grip. I don't put going out for drinks (which is a rarity) anyway ahead of my own children and even then I only do so when I have appropriate childcare in place.

Twice a month seems excessive to me. I'm lucky if I get out 3 times a year!!!

however if the alternative is that the friend can't come out because of interfering parents, then I suppose disturbing the child's sleep once a fortnight isn't the worse thing in the world.

Why is that a valid argument. If the alternative is that the friend can't come out because she has chosen to forbid the child having a relationship with her dad, she should suck it up! Most parents I know can't go out every couple of weeks on nights out. Where is the pity party coming from??

Every two weeks is excessive when you have small kids. The woman put her self in this situation by choosing to cut off support she could easily have. Honestly, people are making it sound like she doesn't have a social life the rest of the time. If she is included in doing things, which the OP does include her, why is going out a NECESSITY every two weeks for her??? It's not even a necessity to most people.

Or is just classic 'fear of missing out'?

I agree that it's more damaging for the child not to see her father and in an earlier post said the op should tackle this. I think this is what the op should concentrate on persuading her friend to do rather than worry so much about the babysitting arrangements. By default if she allows access it may sort the babysitting problem out, but as stand alone problems the not seeing her dad is more damaging and worrying than disturbed sleep two nights a month.