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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is unfair on this 3 year old

266 replies

ogbu · 08/03/2017 19:44

My friends and I go on a night out every fortnight. We arrange childcare for the night. My son goes to his dads anyway on alternate weekends and most of us have a partner at home or get a babysitter.

Now our friend hasnt been able to find anyone who is willing to babysit as her daughter sleeps so on our nights out she gets dressed, then takes her daughter at 9pm to a childminder that does overnight care. She takes her in a taxi.

We don't go clubbing we're too old for that! But we have a meal and a few drinks. This friend always gets a bit too drunk. She then orders a taxi which I sometimes share. She gets to the childminders house in the taxi and picks her daughter up. Her daughter is handed over to her tired, disorientated and distressed as she's suddenly been woken up and put into a taxi. She also takes a while to get to sleep at the childminders so goes about 11pm to sleep so has only been asleep for about three hours at this point.

She then has a 20 minute taxi ride and my friend takes her home and into bed. At this point it's 3:30am easily. She then sleeps until late that day or wakes at her usual time as is grumpy.

I've always suggested my friend just collect her in the morning and give her a full nights sleep and her a chance to sober up so she's not picking her up drunk. But my friend will not even consider that as she then has to get a taxi in the morning or the hassle of the journey by public transport when she's hungover. She would rather pick her up after her night out.

I've not discussed this with friends and don't want to. so that's why I'm asking here.

I understand she has no one to have her daughter and she wants a night out. But there are other options.

We regularly meet at hers, we have day time meet ups, she could come for just the meal and be back earlier. I'm sure she could find someone to babysit at her house.

I just feel sorry for the daughter being kept awake until 10pm, woken at 2am to be transported into a taxi with her drunk mother, then having to stay awake for the taxi ride, taken home, put to bed again. Having her sleep pattern disrupted like that.

If it was necessary than that's different. But all this is so her Mum can go clubbing.

It's not a child protection concern. But AIBU to feel sorry for the little girl?

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 09/03/2017 11:19

ZilphasHatpin:

Of course it's different. The people looking after me were sober! I am just looking at this from the perspective of a little child. They don't understand the (understandable) adult need for company and entertainment. To them, it's just a disruption to their routine and - I suspect at least in this case - a not particularly secure feeling.

halcyondays · 09/03/2017 11:22

Yanbu. Could she not just drink slightly less on the nights out, so she didn't feel so hungover the next day that she couldn't face getting a taxi to collect her dd?

ZilphasHatpin · 09/03/2017 11:24

The people looking after you were sober, yes. they were also strangers, this wasn't something you were used to, it was a high stress situation, your mum was going into hospital, a new sibling was arriving. Of course that wasn't pleasant for you! It's not comparable to a child coming from an environment they know well, a carer they know well, back to their own mother, their own house and bed were they can fall straight to sleep and wake up the next day in their own bed with no strangers or new siblings to deal with. Entirely different.

halcyondays · 09/03/2017 11:30

As an adult I wouldn't want to be woken up around 3 a.m once a fortnight, put in a taxi and taken somewhere else. So I wouldn't expect a 3 year old to be happy about it.

Being disturbed in the night because of your mum going into labour would have been unavoidable, the situation in the op is completely avoidable as the child could be left at the childminders until morning so she wouldn't be disturbed.

Trifleorbust · 09/03/2017 11:30

ZilphasHatpin: I didn't say it was unpleasant for me. I said it wasn't an adventure!

Original poster
ogbu · 09/03/2017 11:31

Yes she could drink less. She could pick her up in the morning too.

She has said she doesn't want to do the journey in the morning when she's hungover and have to pay for a taxi twice.

If this was a situation where a child stayed overnight it wouldn't be as bad. It's the fact the little girl has to stay up way past her bedtime, try and get to sleep at a Childminder's house she doesn't even like, when she does finally get to sleep she's suddenly handed over to her mum who isn't even in her own car but a taxi. This leaves her distressed (often cold if it's not summer) and disorientated. She doesn't just fall asleep again in the taxi. Often she's just crying and even if she does fall asleep she's then woken up again to be put into bed. Then takes a long time to get back to sleep. She then wakes up later than usual.

I've witnessed the entire interaction several times as I sometimes went back to hers, getting a taxi back from there afterwards.

I think if you're not drunk and your child is young enough to just stay asleep the entire time it's okay. But in these circumstances it just doesn't sit right with me at all.

I'd actually never be tipsy in charge of my child. I'm shocked people think that's okay.

I also think it's different if you take your children to a friends house and transport them to your car after the evening is over. You're still around and you're not drunk.

OP posts:
Trifleorbust · 09/03/2017 11:31

Anyway, the OP has been very clear that the child finds it distressing, unsurprisingly enough.

Trifleorbust · 09/03/2017 11:34

I'd actually never be tipsy in charge of my child. I'm shocked people think that's okay

What is your definition of tipsy? Doesn't sound like tipsy to me!

Anyway, OP, whilst I would tend to agree with you overall, the reality is that you are enabling this by standing there witnessing it and by going out with her. If you disagree so strongly, stop doing it.

ZilphasHatpin · 09/03/2017 11:40

I didn't say it was unpleasant for me. I said it wasn't an adventure!

Ok Confused it doesn't actually have to be an adventure. Good that it wasn't unpleasant though.

hazeyjane · 09/03/2017 11:42

Zilphas, Trifle said it wasn't an adventure for her, I said it was unpleasant, well actually horrible.

It doesn't sound like much of an adventure for this little girl either, and I would worry if this is something that is going to continue as she gets older.

I think very drunk people are quite scary to little kids, and some adults don't seem to get this at all.

Trifleorbust · 09/03/2017 11:44

ZilphasHatpin:

But I was responding to someone who did say it was probably like a big adventure. Do keep up!

LemonBreeland · 09/03/2017 11:48

Haven't read the whole thread, but I don't understand why you invite her out if you are so against her behaviour. you've also said your other friends haven't taken to her. She doesn't seem to have many redeeming features.

Haudyerwheesht · 09/03/2017 11:48

I don't think what she's doing is great but I don't think it's a big deal. Tbh the most concerning thing is whether or not the CM is legit.

I feel very sorry for your friend. She has controlling parents, is a single parent and only one friend . I use the term friend loosely. Why aren't the other people you both socialise with 'all the time' her friend? Why do you consider yourself a friend? You don't sound like one. You sound judgy and mean.

Being a friend means sometimes doing things which aren't ideal / convenient for you because they make life easier for someone else.

ZilphasHatpin · 09/03/2017 12:02

Today 11:44 Trifleorbust

ZilphasHatpin:

But I was responding to someone who did say it was probably like a big adventure. Do keep up!

I know, I can read. Your response made it sound like your experience was unpleasant. You talk of "vividly" remembering being dragged out of bed. That sounds unpleasant. Perhaps your didn't means it to sound that way.

ZilphasHatpin · 09/03/2017 12:05

Fwiw I always loved the late night journeys home. I used to watch the stars and tall buildings and street lights whizz by.

Littleballerina · 09/03/2017 12:09

Stop supporting her then op.

hazeyjane · 09/03/2017 12:14

Obviously everyone responds to things differently, I remember those drunken journeys home with fear and bewilderment.

I know when the dds had to come with us to hospital with ds in the middle of the night, dd2 remembers it as a great adventure, dd1 found it all very odd and upsetting (to be fair ds was very very ill and upset, so an understandable reaction!)

But this little girl sounds like she is upset by the experience, and being taken out of bed twice in a night, and then your very drunk mother trying to get you to sleep, every fortnight, doesn't sound like an adventure or pleasant. But maybe I am letting my own experience as a child colour my view.

Trifleorbust · 09/03/2017 12:16

ZilphasHatpin:

My point was that I remember it because it is disruptive.

Mummyoflittledragon · 09/03/2017 12:18

Someone upthread suggested using a sleeping bag and keeping her dd in that so she's snuggled the whole time. Could you suggest this to your friend as it could work better?

Downtheroadfirstonleft · 09/03/2017 13:01

I don't think that what your friend is doing is too bad. Not ideal, but not dreadful.

You are entirely entitled to your own opinion though (and you are the one who has to share the taxi with a distressed child). You are unlikely to change her actions though, unless she is so desperate for a night out that she'll agree to change actions that she doesn't see as a problem.

Either let her make her own arrangements and stop judging her on them, or if you think they are too bad, stop inviting her.

NotCarylChurchill · 09/03/2017 15:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 09/03/2017 19:49

I would be very interested to get your friend's parents' side of the story. People are assuming they are controlling but what if they think that your friend makes some very poor choices? What if they think that she shouldn't be going out so often if she has a child whose needs come before her own? If she can't go out without getting rat arsed every time then maybe she she has a drinking problem and they are concerned about that. Maybe she's living in their house rent free so that she can save up enough money to buy her own house and they're fed up with her spending all her money on getting pissed all the time. Maybe she doesn't look after their house so they check up on it often. You don't know. You're not hearing their side.

But it's telling if you say she has no other friends. Yes, sometimes that is just circumstances but others it's because those around them get fed up of their behaviour.

PetalMettle · 09/03/2017 20:37

Apologies if I've missed but how is the child transported in the taxi? I'm assuming no child seat so is she just placed in a buggy?

MelinaMercury · 09/03/2017 20:53

You don't legally need a car seat in a taxi.

WeMustGetOffTheMountain · 09/03/2017 21:02

CurlyhairedAssassin exactly. I completely agree. And still fail to see how this behaviour is in any way justifyable!