To think this is unfair on this 3 year old

[ogbu]

My friends and I go on a night out every fortnight. We arrange childcare for the night. My son goes to his dads anyway on alternate weekends and most of us have a partner at home or get a babysitter.

Now our friend hasnt been able to find anyone who is willing to babysit as her daughter sleeps so on our nights out she gets dressed, then takes her daughter at 9pm to a childminder that does overnight care. She takes her in a taxi.

We don't go clubbing we're too old for that! But we have a meal and a few drinks. This friend always gets a bit too drunk. She then orders a taxi which I sometimes share. She gets to the childminders house in the taxi and picks her daughter up. Her daughter is handed over to her tired, disorientated and distressed as she's suddenly been woken up and put into a taxi. She also takes a while to get to sleep at the childminders so goes about 11pm to sleep so has only been asleep for about three hours at this point.

She then has a 20 minute taxi ride and my friend takes her home and into bed. At this point it's 3:30am easily. She then sleeps until late that day or wakes at her usual time as is grumpy.

I've always suggested my friend just collect her in the morning and give her a full nights sleep and her a chance to sober up so she's not picking her up drunk. But my friend will not even consider that as she then has to get a taxi in the morning or the hassle of the journey by public transport when she's hungover. She would rather pick her up after her night out.

I've not discussed this with friends and don't want to. so that's why I'm asking here.

I understand she has no one to have her daughter and she wants a night out. But there are other options.

We regularly meet at hers, we have day time meet ups, she could come for just the meal and be back earlier. I'm sure she could find someone to babysit at her house.

I just feel sorry for the daughter being kept awake until 10pm, woken at 2am to be transported into a taxi with her drunk mother, then having to stay awake for the taxi ride, taken home, put to bed again. Having her sleep pattern disrupted like that.

If it was necessary than that's different. But all this is so her Mum can go clubbing.

It's not a child protection concern. But AIBU to feel sorry for the little girl?

i don't think you're being unreasonable, you say you do plenty of other things with her, and if she can afford the £40 for this 10-3 dodgy CM, she could afford to pay £8 per hour (which is what sitters.co.uk costs here) for a babysitter to come to her house. It doesn't make a lot of sense, I thought it was about money but it can't be.

She's not actually your friend at all is she? Or rather you aren't hers. You don't even like her.

Definitely not an ideal situation. She had a child, that child is her responsibility. She shouldn't be palming her off with a dodgy "childminder" so she can go out drinking til stupid o' clock every couple of weeks!

Completely unfair on the child, one a fortnight is really quite often to be doing this, your friend should really have somebody look after her daughter overnight or not go out at all, completely understand that we all need time to ourselves but this is absolutely not the way to do it

£80 a month plus drinks plus taxis? Every 2 weeks is loads.

Um perhaps it's because this is my field but I am more concerned that any childminder is happy to let someone "more than a bit tipsy" collect a child. "Loss of physical control?" Ffs! And what's with taking a child from 10pm to 3am??? When did that become part of the EYFS? Frankly OFSTED would take a very dim view of all of that.

Why would they? She isn't doing anything wrong having a child from 10-3. And a bit tipsy means nothing at all. The OP already said that she would step in if she thought she was too drunk to collect the child

i don't get that ogbu doesn't like her, it sounds like her friend is lashing out because she got dumped by someone she loved, and is trying to hurt him through their child. In your shoes, I'd probably talk to your friend about sitters - I've been very reluctant to get anyone to babysit I didn't know personally but as a lone parent she needs to build a bigger network of support. You need a small pool of paid or unpaid help to have any sort of a life once you have kids.

Only the OP thinks she is a dodgy childminder there is no evidence for that.

You'd be judging her even if she got a babysitter in.

But there is a massive difference between being a bit tipsy and a loss of physical control, with the latter suggesting to me that she's hammered...

i can't think any of the babysitters we use would be happy to have us drop off at 10 and pick up our sleeping kids at 3am on a regular basis, and there's no way family or friends would do that, they'd say pick up the next morning. It does sound dodgy to me, but in the category of 'not a great parenting decision'.

Actually she is putting the needs of the parent above the child and providers have lost registration Dorset less than this.

Also do you really think that if she dropped the child or failed to secure the house properly so the child was injured in the kitchen or wandered into the street that the childminder would be seen to have no responsibility because the mothers mate thought she wasn't too drunk?

Um duty of care?

I suspect what has happened is that OP and her friends have got fed up with this person tagging along to their nights out, have had a bit of a bitch about it and OP is using this thread to test the waters for her plan to suggest the woman maybe shouldn't do it anymore because "won't anyone think of the children". This thread is a good way of finding out the best way to present her "concerns" in a way that will guarantee success (success= woman not coming out anymore)

I think it's quite simple

If you are seriously worried about the welfare of the child you need to tell your friend

Well of course you don't have to host anything but in answer to 'why should I' I suppose it's something I would do if it was my friend who was clearly struggling with childcare but wanted to enjoy an adult night with drinks. I think my friends would do the same for me, because we like each other and try hard to make life easier for each other.

Your stance that her lack of childcare is entirely her own fault seems unfair. The courts have granted day access only - not overnight. Perhaps you should consider why. Courts don't care if a mother is 'bitter' they act in the best interests of the child.

My Dh is from a different culture. It is perfectly standard for them all to get together of a Friday evening, dc included all ages, and all get a bit merry, someone will make a big bed for the dc to sleep in in front of the tv, kids will be scooped up and taken home around 2am or whenever party finishes. I was a bit shocked at first, and they all found it reall funny that I religiously followed my routines of putting dc to bed at 7 after story etc. But actually, it's lovely, adults get a party, dc really enjoy themselves, and get to learn the world doesn't revolve around them.
So, I wouldn't judge this woman to anywhere near the extent you are op.

arethereanyleftatall, that is an entirely different situation to the one described in the OP.

nokidshere, No, there is no "evidence" the childminder is dodgy. However, I'm not sure any ofsted registered childminder would be participating in such a set up.

It's always possible to get a babysitter. There's always a willing teenager locally or she could ask at the nearest playgroup, church or nursery who could probably recommend someone trustworthy. She hasn't tried hard enough.

I think Zilphas has it spot on.

The more you post, the more it's clear that this is purely a thread to judge and moan about your 'friend'.

First, she's really drunk. Then she's not that drunk. Then she's not really drunk enough for the babysitter to notice

Honestly can't see the big deal about interrupting the 3yr olds sleep once a fortnight. So she sleeps a bit later afterwards or wakes up grumpy. Don't we all after a broken nights sleep? It's twice a month. Big fucking deal.

Do the childcare arrangements for the rest of you preclude you going into town earlier, even just every other time i.e. once a month? I appreciate I'm an old fogey but going out at 9.00/10.00pm seems quite late, especially if you say you're eating. Most of the restaurants in my city stop serving food at 9.00pm or thereabouts. Is there any reason you couldn't go out from 8.00pm - midnight for a change? You'd still get your four hours of drinking but it would be less disruptive for your friend's daughter to be picked up and back in her own bed earlier.

It isn't that different mountain. It still involves tipsy parents waking their dc around 3am to get taxis home.

I'm literally shocked people think this is OK...

How old are you all??!

I think you all need to grow up a little. She sounds very immature tbh. Clearly isn't putting the welfare of her own child first.

Could you not help her find a decent babysitter and maybe end your nights out at a more 'normal' hour?!