To talk to FIL about his partner not being our DS's Granny....

[Writerwannabe83]

Almost three years ago my MIL died very unexpectedly when DS was 4 months old. Throughout the pregnancy she had been so excited as she so desperately wanted a grandchild but due to her being unwell she only ever got to hold him once before she died. DH understandably took her death very badly and I know it breaks his heart that she never got to be in DS's life and it kills him that DS will grow up never knowing who his Grandma was (he's now almost three).

About four months after MIL had died our FIL came round and announced that he had met someone - my DH was very upset about this as it felt as though hardly any time had passed since his mother's death and he actually walked out of the room because he didn't know what to do or say.

My FIL has now been with this woman for 2.5 years and my DH has only met her once (and even that occasion was an accident) and he does not wish to get to know her. I think the fact she came on the scene so close to his mother's death has caused him to put up a brick wall and I think he's angry with his dad and deflects this on to the woman. I have met her plenty of times and she seems very pleasant but DH and I never really talk about her, she just generally isn't mentioned. FIL never makes reference to her when my DH is around.

Anyhow - yesterday my FIL looked after DS for me for a few hours and his partner was there too which is obviously fine. However, when DS came back he started referring to FIL's partner as 'Granny' and when he did it for the first time it really stung DH. DH later said to me that the woman isn't DS's Granny and he was really upset to hear it come out of DS's mouth.

We don't know whether FIL is referring to this woman as being our DS's Granny, or whether the woman herself is doing it, but either way my DH is finding it hard to make sense of. He's adamant his dad would never allow another woman to refer to herself as 'granny' (out of loyalty to his past wife) but I'm not so sure.

DH has said that if DS is being told by either FIL or the other woman that she is 'granny' then that's it, he won't let FIL look after DS anymore. He said he won't have DS growing up thinking FIL's partner is his Granny as his mum will always have that title. I think DH feels like his mum's role is trying to replaced as that's how he felt when FIL started dating again so soon.

I feel like I need to say something to FIL because it's really upsetting DH but I don't know what? I can just see this snowballing and I don't want it to create even more family division.

RhiWrites - the point is this is grief - and that is not logical or reasonable. OPs DH has been left alone by his dad to navigate this grief whilst dad has a great time with new woman. Ops DH feels like his dad has abandoned him and the memory of his mum.
They say time heals for a bereavement, but OPs DH was not given that time.

Honestly? He needs grief counseling. He sounds completely stuck if he is still feeling like this after 3 years. It's awful for him, but he is not being fair on others around him if he won't seek help.

I think some people are mistaking having a new partner with stopping grieving. I think one of the reasons men take up with new women/wives very quickly is that they look for someone to grieve with, because they often turn to the one woman in their lives for emotional support. My husband would do this, I'm sure as he simply doesn't talk to anyone deeply about his emotions except me. I've noticed women who are widowed tend to rely on their female friends for emotional support, and not start new relationships, I think it is because their emotional needs are fulfilled by supportive female friends (in an ideal circumstance).

I don't think a lot of these widowers are 'moving on' so much as 'leaning on' someone else.

In this case, the death was a shock. If there was longer term illness/terminal stage, then actually the person has often considered what life will be like without their partner, and whether they would like a new one. This seems deeply unpleasant, especially to children who are denial their parents are romantic/sexual beings or have emotional needs, but is quite common in my experience.

The time after being bereaved of a life partner is an utterly awful one, it is not surprising some people, men in particular who have fewer emotional resources and friends, turn to other human beings to help them through.

Jesus, some people project a lot!

'and to deprive his son of a loving parent while teaching him to kiss a gravestone. That's macabre.'

He's doing no such thing! Going NC with his dad and cutting him out of his life would be doing that. The GF is not 'a parent'.

This is a tempest in a teacup!

He just needs to tell his dad he doesn't want his son calling the GF 'Granny'. There's FA wrong with that. Then carry on.

Think about what your departed MIL would think of this whole situation. Would she want all the bad feeling and heartache or would she be pleased that FIL met someone and is happy. Maybe she even gave him her blessing before her death, even suggested someone (I've known this before).

I agree with him needing counselling.

My most affectionate relationship growing up was with my Nans Partner. I far as I was concerned he was my true Granddad, even though my Dad always called him by his full name and my Mum by his first nane.

When he died my Nan sent all the photos she had of him, to his cousins. No-one considered me.

It's still something that I resent all of them for. I'm not as close with my cousins etc because my Parents thought they owned me and could dictate who was my family.

Exactly Expat, that's what we have done. FILs partner is not Granny to DS anymore than she is Mum to DH. It's not an issue. She's still part of the family.

cauliwobbles - irrespective of what the MIL may or may not have wanted, OPs DH is entitled to his own feelings and his own grief. He's not obliged to react in a certain way defined by either his mum or his dad. He's a person too with his own grief and his own thoughts.

DH has been left alone by his dad to navigate this grief whilst dad has a great time with new woman.

Or rather, the OP's husband had someone to share his grief with on a daily basis, whereas his dad was alone at home and needed someone closer.

The alternative would have been for him to lumber his child, who was already grieving, with his own grieving.

I'm really curious about how much the son here managed to support his dad.

Exactly Expat, that's what we have done. FILs partner is not Granny to DS anymore than she is Mum to DH. It's not an issue. She's still part of the family.

The main problem here is that she's not even allowed to be part of the family

'The main problem here is that she's not even allowed to be part of the family'

If that were so, he'd not allow his son to go there when the GF was there at all.

Jesus wept!

This is between him and his dad. He calls his dad and tells him he'd rather his son call the GF by her name and not 'Granny' and go from there.

Lweji - I understand what you are saying, but a spouse's support isn't the same. My DH had 30 years with his family before he met me, shared history, love that I was not a part of. Even when we married, I can't say I loved MIL. When you lose a parent it is normal to turn to the immediate family to share memories of childhood and the rest - you can't do that so well with your spouse.

As a DIL, when MIL died I was not given a place in the funeral car with the family - they travelled together and I went with other people.

My DH just wanted some time with his dad to talk and grieve, but that wasn't possible because of the new relationship.

Yes, Fil may have a new lease of life with a new relationship - don't we all?

Yes dynamics will change when a DM passes but looking towards a Fil to hold it all together is a pointless thought and a damaging one at that.

Most long term married men leave their wives to hold and structure the family - once she isn't there anymore he can't just magically take on that role!

Him dating again is not related to how he views your DM

Btw I do not necessarily agree with dating the day after death here because even that's a bit much for me but some of people's expectations on here about how widowed people should move forward is astounding

Timeforteaplease

Bringing a date to her funeral. That is a fucking disgrace. I've heard of it before as well (also in Britain, I guess because there is often several weeks between death and funeral).

I mean all the posters saying "oh it's not an insult to the dead partner" can surely appreciate that moving on BEFORE THE FUNERAL is too soon, yeah? And if "too soon" does exist, can you at least see that for some people, 4 months is also too soon?

My dad married the woman he was having an affair with when he split up with my mum. I wouldn't have allowed her to be referred to as granny. We used her first name.

We were always friendly and welcoming (v hard but best for my kids) and the kids spent lots of time with her and my dad. She split up with my dad after 12 years and didn't want to maintain a relationship with the kids.

When it happened I was so relieved we hadn't referred to her as granny. How do you explain to children that their grandmother doesn't want them any more? It was easier to explain because she was 'grandads wife' rather that their granny. Your granny is supposed to love you until her last breath, not bugger off because she's fed up with your grandad. I think blood ties are really relevant in this situation.

The new partner looks a lot like MIL too so I think DH struggles with that as well.
Exactly the same thing happened with my ex-FIL - just weeks after the funeral he met a woman who looks really similar to my late MIL. She is also a doctor, like MIL was, and has the same taste in clothes. Within weeks, the neighbours were talking about the new woman being seen on the terrace wearing MIL's clothes ... I suspect they were actually her own, but last time I saw her she was indeed using MIL's favourite, disctinctive bag. FIL is just the sort of guy who wouldn't even think about how this might come across.

My ex isn't too bad with the "new" woman (years later) but his sister still won't have her in the house. After that start, I can't really blame her. However many years have gone by, it was just far too much back then to expect the adult children to accept what was obviously a replacement for MIL, so quickly. Of course they are happy that he is not alone, but they are angry that FIL just trod roughly all over their feelings.

If that were so, he'd not allow his son to go there when the GF was there at all.

That's not even remotely being part of the family.

Totally with you there fourflapjacksplease, Jeez if my kids called everyone of my fils gfs granny they would have had an awful lot come and go.. Which ISNT beneficial towards the children, and pretty ridiculous!

I dont see my partner as replaceable and the thought of getting a new partner months after his death I would see as being very disloyal to him. I have so much respect for my husband we have shared so much together, he has given me beautiful children and a lovely home I couldnt disrespect him like that. I also adore my kids young or old they will always be a very important part of my life because I will make them feel like that.
Their feelings would always be realised as they are my family part of me and I love them, I will always do whatever I can to hold my family together, Dismissing their feelings would be a very cruel and bad mistake to make.
Grieving takes time being respectful enough to realise this will give a better outcome for ALL involved particularly the new woman.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza - the new woman was a family friend and knew MIL so was at the funeral because of that, not as a date. But we picked up on the new relationship because she behaved like a hostess at the funeral - which was beyond weird. And at the end of the day when all the friends had gone and just family were chatting and sharing stories, she stayed for that as well. It was very odd.

Lweji, she isn't part of the family though - she is fil's partner but if his son doesn't want a relationship with her and doesn't regard her as amything more,then that is his prerogative.
I think fil has a right to expect civility but he can't insist that his son behaves as though this woman is family. I feel sorry for the new dp, I think she is getting a rough deal because fil was clumsy and selfish and appears to still give no thought to how his son feels.

In our family, DS has 4 sets of grandparents because of divorce rather than bereavement. They are all just grandad x or nanna y and as he gets older we're explaining that y is mummy's mummy and f is married to grandad x and gradnad x is mummy's daddy. It does piece together and children are very accepting of a given situation. Your DH really needs to think of a polite alternative term for his dad's partner that your DS can use but you need to step back from this one.

I may be alone in thinking that OP does have a role to play in this. In the post-bereavement fall out in DHs family I often stepped in because I was calmer and less upset about things. I would often have difficult conversations on behalf of my DH so he did not get even more upset/angry.

My parents split up as my Dad was having an affair with a family friend (so called!). Dad married the OW, and I dealt with the fall out with Mum. When db and I started having kids, he and his wife were happy for theirs to call the OW granny. I however, wasn't, and she was referred to by her name, and as the relationship with my Dad had been shaky since I was a teen, his insistence that she was ds's granny, and the attempt to pretend my Mum didn't exist, basically killed any possible contact.

Ds already had two very redoubtable and formidable grandmothers, no need for another. Dad has since died, and the OW has dropped contact with my dba and his kids, now that one of her own boys has had children. She also took up with another man whom she brought to my Gran's funeral, and who was the spitting image of my Dad.

I know it will be hard for your dp letting his fathers partner be called granny. He isn't wrong for that at all and it would only be OK if you both were OK with it and properly knew the woman. I feel for you and your partner as it isn't easy and it is also hard when your film is thinking playing happy families is OK xx

You're not alone, Timefortea. I'd just see it as helping my partner deal with a difficult situation.

My children aso have four grandparents from distant divorces. They are all accepted as permanent grandparents, as I accept them as a permanent part of my family. It's not like this case, where the parent doesn't accept this newcomer.