To talk to FIL about his partner not being our DS's Granny....

[Writerwannabe83]

Almost three years ago my MIL died very unexpectedly when DS was 4 months old. Throughout the pregnancy she had been so excited as she so desperately wanted a grandchild but due to her being unwell she only ever got to hold him once before she died. DH understandably took her death very badly and I know it breaks his heart that she never got to be in DS's life and it kills him that DS will grow up never knowing who his Grandma was (he's now almost three).

About four months after MIL had died our FIL came round and announced that he had met someone - my DH was very upset about this as it felt as though hardly any time had passed since his mother's death and he actually walked out of the room because he didn't know what to do or say.

My FIL has now been with this woman for 2.5 years and my DH has only met her once (and even that occasion was an accident) and he does not wish to get to know her. I think the fact she came on the scene so close to his mother's death has caused him to put up a brick wall and I think he's angry with his dad and deflects this on to the woman. I have met her plenty of times and she seems very pleasant but DH and I never really talk about her, she just generally isn't mentioned. FIL never makes reference to her when my DH is around.

Anyhow - yesterday my FIL looked after DS for me for a few hours and his partner was there too which is obviously fine. However, when DS came back he started referring to FIL's partner as 'Granny' and when he did it for the first time it really stung DH. DH later said to me that the woman isn't DS's Granny and he was really upset to hear it come out of DS's mouth.

We don't know whether FIL is referring to this woman as being our DS's Granny, or whether the woman herself is doing it, but either way my DH is finding it hard to make sense of. He's adamant his dad would never allow another woman to refer to herself as 'granny' (out of loyalty to his past wife) but I'm not so sure.

DH has said that if DS is being told by either FIL or the other woman that she is 'granny' then that's it, he won't let FIL look after DS anymore. He said he won't have DS growing up thinking FIL's partner is his Granny as his mum will always have that title. I think DH feels like his mum's role is trying to replaced as that's how he felt when FIL started dating again so soon.

I feel like I need to say something to FIL because it's really upsetting DH but I don't know what? I can just see this snowballing and I don't want it to create even more family division.

Morning everyone,

FIL definitely wasn't having an affair - he's as straight as they come. He was either at work or at home. He didn't have any hobbies and I suppose he didn't have any friends really. When MIL was well they spent their weekends together going cycling, going to theatres, going out for meals, weekend breaks etc - they were really active as a couple.

They definitely didn't know about mother's illness as we were only told her diagnosis by the Consultant about three days before her death.

FIL was undoubtedly lonely following her death because MIL was his only companionship so I completely understand why he sought out a new partner so quickly and I have tried to explain this to DH but he just can't accept that his dad moved on so quickly.

It's hard for me to see it from my DH's angle as my parents separated when I was very young so I've never known them to be together so I can't empathise with him about how it must feel to suddenly see one of your parents with another person.

His anger and upset is entirely genuine though and I honestly don't think it will ever cease. He holds such resentment towards this other woman. I have asked her what exactly it is that she has done wrong and he admits that she's done nothing wrong, but that he doesn't want anything to do with her.

He says he is glad his dad has somebody for company and she obviously makes him happy but that doesn't mean she has to be part of DH's life too. He doesn't have a problem with DS seeing her or me taking DS to see FIL whilst his partner is there, he just doesn't want to see his dad playing happy families with a woman who isn't his mum and he doesn't want to see another woman all comfortable in the house that his mum and dad had always lived in as a couple. And he absolutely doesn't want DS thinking this woman is his grandparent in place of his mother.

FIL and DH don't talk about my MIL either really - she's as much the white elephant in the room as FILs new partner is.
I find that sadder still.

So difficult. I can see why it was a huge shock to him when his mum died. Much easier to be angry at this woman he doesn't even know than be angry at the unfairness/mum 'being gone' so unexpectedly.

From what you say, your FIL was very much a couple type person and it is not surprising he chose to grieve as part of another couple and not to live alone for years.

You can't magic anything better in this situation, I would be very cross if he started to deny my children the opportunity to be around his dad/this lady due to his inability to come to terms with her, I don't expect they called her 'Granny' but more that your child (who is 3 or above) thinks Grannies/Grandpas come in pairs, just as they often think Mums/Dads do too, but people live in all kinds of combinations or on their own. This could be fixed though easily by referring to her by her name.

I feel sad for the FIL in this situation. He lost his wife, and the pain of that is terrible, and I don't believe it is relieved or forgotten by having someone new around at all, just perhaps that living becomes somewhat possible, Somervilles posts show that.

The even sadder thing is that your child won't really have a relationship at all with MIL as she's dead. I know about relations who have passed away and meant a lot to my family, seen pictures, heard about the things they said, but they aren't real to me really. Or at least, it's not the same as having a relationship with a living person. That's why having a relationship with this lady wouldn't jeopardize anything for your son in his 'relationship' with his grandmother, but I expect your husband doesn't want to hear this and is perhaps in a bit of denial about how this will play out in the future.

It's made worse that DH's brother has accepted this new woman with open arms, his three children have a good relationship with her (they are aged 2 and 5 year old twins) and as a family they regularly go on days out with FIL and his partner.

DH's brother used to live away though and went abroad a lot with work so he very rarely saw his parents, sometimes not even once a year. He'd left home at 16 and this lifestyle of very limited contact had been going on for well over 10 years by the time MIL passed away. He didn't really spend time with them or have a relationship with them in the same way DH did as we'd visit his parents at least twice a week.

That's not to say my BIL didn't love his MIL, obviously, but I think the fact he didn't really see his mum made it easier to accept his Dad meeting somebody else.

The distant relationship with her other DS was why MIL was so excited about me and DH having a baby as she could finally be play an active Grandma role as opposed to only seeing her other grandchildren once a year.

It's complicated on so many levels.

In the end this is upto your dh to decide because this is his dad and it is his relationship to negotiate. Don't battle with your dh over it. I think he is doing his best in enabling his child to spend time with his dad. If that is all he can manage then that will have to do.
I wouldn't push for anything more - you can't give fil what he would prefer at the expense of your husband's feelings. Forcing the issue will make it even less likely that your dh will accepr this woman.

Ah, have the cousins started calling her granny? That would explain it.

Your DH really, really needs grief counselling.

Aha, the mystery is solved. This is the first mention of a brother.

If FIL and new women regularly go out with BIL and his 3 kids then isn't it like that to BIL's family they are Grandad and Granny ?

That's where this has come from, surely? FIL is used to him and new woman being Grandad and Grannie in relation to BIL's kids and it just slipped out around your kid.

Doesn't that make sense? It's not trying to steal a title or a relationship, it's overflow from an existing good relationship with BIL.

Get your husband to call his brother and ask what they call new woman to their kids. I bet you the brother will say "Granny, of course".

x-posted with Somerville. Completely agree with the need for grief counselling.

My DH and his brother have a very strained relationship. They don't have any contact with each other unless they happened to be at their parent's house at the time of BIL's annual visit. They've never got on since a young age.

You're right though, I would be intrigued to know what his children call FIL's new partner.

DS has never been round the new partner in the presence of his cousins (for the reasons above) so he won't have picked Granny up from them.

And DS has no concept of grandparents coming in pairs as my parents aren't together.

I don't think your DS should call her granny just by her first name is fine
I don't think your DH should accept her if he's not ready , it's his DFs relationship and as long as his DF is happy and your DH is polite and friendly as possible that's enough
some people take along time to get over the death of a parent

I think I'm just going to mention it to FIL because otherwise it's just going to fester. My DH is happy for me to bring it up because he knows I will be more tactful and because FIL will be much more receptive if it comes from me.

And in my heart of hearts I really, really don't think FIL would introduce this woman as Granny to the children, I just can't see it.

If I had to guess I would say this woman referred to herself as Granny and FIL didn't tell her not to for fear of offending her.

My DH is also pretty adamant his dad wouldn't have referred to his new partner as Granny - I really can't bear to think of the fall out though if we're both wrong

You mentioned upthread that you weren't comfortable with it because of how little interaction she has actually had with your DS. That may be the better way to approach this with FIL for now, it takes the focus off the differing views of FIL and DH to her.

foureyes, aderyn, and Hashi excellent advice.

OP you say "...just can't accept that his dad moved on so quickly." And I totally know what you mean but I also think because he choose a last that looked so much like his former wife (is it really obvious, uncanny, or just a bit?) .

I think the complications with his brother etc mean that the family relationships were already a but strained before MIL's death.

I think it is very sad your Dh cannot move on from this. It sounds like the family dynamics mean your son is actually missing out on a wider family relationship with cousins etc.

Pushing won't make this work, IMHO but for his own peace of mind he does need to address the loss. It seems to me there were three very big shocks on quick succession. MIL's diagnosis, quick death then a relatively quick arrival of a new woman who looks like his mum.no wonder he has been 'damaged' by this. Anyone would be.

I hope he will find a way through it.

Chose a woman not choose a last

That should be..
...also think because he chose a woman that looked so much like his former wife (is it really obvious, uncanny, or just a bit?) that he was not really over her.

It's possible that this title has been chosen for this woman by someone else. She may not be entirely comfortable with it herself but doesn't want to hurt anyones feelings by saying so.

I'm sure DH's feelings towards her haven't gone un noticed over the years.

OP, can't you ask your husband - for everyones sake including his own - to have counselling? Does he want to be angry for the rest of his life? What a burden of pain and sadness to carry around.

As someone who has overcome a lot of anger for family issues myself I promise you it can be done - does he want his dad to die one day and this to have ruined the life they could have enjoyed together.

This woman is not replacing his mother, it is something else entirely - it's a focus for his grief.

re. the name - it really is a symptom isn't it not a cause of the pain. Given that the father hasn't actually done anything wrong in seeking comfort from what must have been agonising loneliness and grief - itsn't it right that you try to help sort this out so it doesn't poison the future relationship between all of them?

My son calls MIL husband grandad - he just thinks that is the name for older guy who goes about with grannny !

I think you should be honest with your FIL but try to do it as a way to open up a conversation between him and your DH. Tell FIL that there is a lot of grief and sadness behind it - and that you need to resolve it all.

Writerwannabe83

I'm starting to read a lot between the lines here

Brother moves away
Only companion

So I'm going to step away from the keyboard for a while.