To talk to FIL about his partner not being our DS's Granny....

[Writerwannabe83]

Almost three years ago my MIL died very unexpectedly when DS was 4 months old. Throughout the pregnancy she had been so excited as she so desperately wanted a grandchild but due to her being unwell she only ever got to hold him once before she died. DH understandably took her death very badly and I know it breaks his heart that she never got to be in DS's life and it kills him that DS will grow up never knowing who his Grandma was (he's now almost three).

About four months after MIL had died our FIL came round and announced that he had met someone - my DH was very upset about this as it felt as though hardly any time had passed since his mother's death and he actually walked out of the room because he didn't know what to do or say.

My FIL has now been with this woman for 2.5 years and my DH has only met her once (and even that occasion was an accident) and he does not wish to get to know her. I think the fact she came on the scene so close to his mother's death has caused him to put up a brick wall and I think he's angry with his dad and deflects this on to the woman. I have met her plenty of times and she seems very pleasant but DH and I never really talk about her, she just generally isn't mentioned. FIL never makes reference to her when my DH is around.

Anyhow - yesterday my FIL looked after DS for me for a few hours and his partner was there too which is obviously fine. However, when DS came back he started referring to FIL's partner as 'Granny' and when he did it for the first time it really stung DH. DH later said to me that the woman isn't DS's Granny and he was really upset to hear it come out of DS's mouth.

We don't know whether FIL is referring to this woman as being our DS's Granny, or whether the woman herself is doing it, but either way my DH is finding it hard to make sense of. He's adamant his dad would never allow another woman to refer to herself as 'granny' (out of loyalty to his past wife) but I'm not so sure.

DH has said that if DS is being told by either FIL or the other woman that she is 'granny' then that's it, he won't let FIL look after DS anymore. He said he won't have DS growing up thinking FIL's partner is his Granny as his mum will always have that title. I think DH feels like his mum's role is trying to replaced as that's how he felt when FIL started dating again so soon.

I feel like I need to say something to FIL because it's really upsetting DH but I don't know what? I can just see this snowballing and I don't want it to create even more family division.

• sorry her step mother not mil

This doesn't help the underlying issues with your DH, but as an interim measure, might you suggest to your FiL that he introduces his partner as Jane (or whatever) rather than Granny, in order to continue his relationship as a grandfather? Surely that's preferable for him than not seeing/caring for your DS.

In my own family, my father's parents divorced, and his father remarried (later, to someone he met after his marriage had ended, when my father was a teenager). I always knew them as Grandpa and Mary (not real name), with Grandma being my father's mum (who was still alive). I had positive relationships with all of them - Mary was lovely, and certainly treated me and my siblings as grandchildren. So the hurt and bitterness can continue much longer than you may hope - from what I understand, neither grandparent covered themselves with glory as their marriage ended.

I think it's pretty juvenile to see this as just 'playing happy families' when it's another adult's happiness at stake.

For some reason, perhaps cultural, people seem to have their parents on pedestals and be very distressed when they turn out to be human and do slightly crazy things in grief that turn out fine, like meeting a nice person.

But parents are expected to suck up any old son or daughter in law, plaster on a smile, not say anything, play happy families when their children bring home unsuitable people. I can think of families where the children's choices of partner are nothing short of disastrous and have ruined family occasions and happiness for decades, but for some reason this is acceptable, but some widower finding a nice woman to spend his remaining days is outrageous.

I think as an adult yourself, you sometimes have to dig deep and realise that by continuing to behave in a childish way, you are simply remaining a hurt child yourself. I do get it, I have a step-mum (not asked for, she was the OW) who I didn't speak to for two years when I was in my early twenties, but over time I grew up, realised she was a nice person, and now love the fact that more people care for my children/send them presents/make them feel special.

If you can't, you can't, but then you have to explain to your child why this is ok behavior, and why they can't ever speak about the 'Granny' who lives with Grandad (they may have heard about Grannies on Peppa Pig).

I think it's fine to call her 'Helen' or whatever, just not to ignore her and behave in a way that actively hurts his dad.

I can't stand my mil's partner, and neither can dp. But he makes mil very happy and is an excellent surrogate grandfather.
Oh I do know what it's like to lose a parent. Been there. Twice.

I had a great-nan and an uncle Bob. My dad's grandad had died when he was young, and my great nan remarried. My dad wouldn't let us call him Grandad out of respect for his Grandad who he loved very much.

My nan divorced my Grandad when I was a baby. She remarried and her new husband has always been 'first name' to me, but other cousins call him Grandad. He is my Grandad to me in all but name. More so than my actual Grandad.

My parents are divorced and have new partners (married if it matters) They are both called by their first names. So Nanny and 'first name' and Grandad and 'first name'. I do not ever refer to them as my step-parents, or their children as my step-siblings.

Dh's parents are divorced. Our dc call his mum by her first name. Always have done. We've never corrected them and she doesn't mind. DH's dad is just referred to as 'Dad's Dad'. He is technically their Grandad but he is an awful man who we have no contact with and he doesn't deserve the title!

My dc manage just fine with this whole mess of a family set up. They know that family is more than blood and they know that they are loved by lots of people.

I don't think your DH is being unreasonable. He is grieving for his mum. There is no need for this woman to be anything other than her first name to your dc for now. How your dc ultimately feel about her will, of course, be down to them.

I completely sympathise with those who have felt such grief. I do.
But this is not the FIL's issue. He doesn't need 'speaking to'. This is the DH's issue. 100%. If there is no relationship that is because there is not allowed to be a relationship.
Shouldn't this be about the child? Why should he miss out on having a granny? Your FIL has done nothing wrong but your DH will continue to make him pay for not grieving in the way your DH thinks he should. That poor woman.
Your DH needs help, that much is clear. Otherwise the bitterness will just grow and grow and, ultimately, it will be your FIL and son that will pay the price. Is he open to grief counselling?

Writerwannabe "DH has always said he accepts FIL has met someone else, states that he doesn't want his dad to be lonely ......He has said that if FIL had met this woman now he wouldn't feel so strongly about him having a new partner, but he just can't get passed the fact that FIL started dating her so soon after his mother's death....The new partner looks a lot like MIL too so I think DH struggles with that as well." (Condensed so you know what I am talking about!)

I think your dh has every reason to be upset at the speed and also if the woman looks like his mum it must be very odd and hard to deal with.

StillDrivingMeBonkers "Its very selfish to want someone to lonely. Would your DH be happier if his father remained bereaved and depressed? Because that's what he's asking."

No, that is not what he is asking at all. He has said he doesn't want his dad to be lonely. He has said he doesn't want anything much (if I've read it rightly) to do with this women and he doesn't want his son to call her Granny. You or I may not agree with that. Many may wish he could get some counselling and get over it, I would agree to that.

But I think he has every right to feel four months was too quick to move on from the death of his wife (as the OP's Dh might perceive it to be moving on).

OP I really feel your first responsibility here is to your husband and to try and understand him. I would certainly encourage bereavement counselling and moving on but if he feels unable to do this then I would not push too hard.

He could speak to his dad but that may make things much worse.

If you can bear to do it I would tell your FIL how it is, simply.

Ask who started the 'granny' name and then say your dh doesn't want this repeated and he says if it is it will jeopardize the relationship between the FIL and his grandchild.

If the father in law is willing to prioritize the relationship with his partner in order to enable his partner to be called granny, he has made his choice and if your dh says no contact then so be it.

Grandparents don't have rights to see grandchildren and if your dh feels very strongly about this I do feel you should support him, while also trying to help him overcome this.

Your FIL could have kept this women as just a friend for a while and this would have lessened the pain. YES, he has every right to do as he wishes with his own life but so does his son, your dh.

In your shoes I'd try and make peace, speak to FIL, maybe speak to his partner too direct if this will help.

Good luck

I would hazard a guess that most of the posters who are calling OP's DH 'selfish' and saying he needs to get over himself have not experienced the loss of a parent themselves.

And you'd be wrong here.

I'm genuinely astonished that there are people who think it is okay for someone who is essentially a stranger to be declared granny by fil and that the OP's dh should just suck it up. It isn't his child and not his choice to make. Fil chose to move on with indecent haste and no consideration for how his son felt, he doesn't get to dictate the terms of everyone else's relationships.

It is not a comparable situation to those who have positive relationships with their step parents and who want the step parent to filfil the role of grandparent. The dh barely knows her - he gets to say who is granny to his own child.

lweji "If your OH adopted a child would he want his dad to call them grandchild?"

To be fair, adoption is not like dating or being someone's partner, to be honest it is no even like marriage, IMHO.

If the grandparent refused to call the child their grandchild I expect the parent would cut off contact. So really that analogy (if that is the right word) is not right to me (as an adoptive parent that is).

I don't think anyone's saying he should beat it round there with a cushion with 'granny' tattooed on it, merely that a harsh overreaction will lead to estrangement and that is not a desirable outcome, whereas eventually allowing some sort of relationship will benefit the child. I've certainly got plenty of experience of loss and how it estranges families, yes you can shut people out but if the partner is a permanent fixture it's hardly desirable.

BiscuitMillionaire
I would hazard a guess that most of the posters who are calling OP's DH 'selfish' and saying he needs to get over himself have not experienced the loss of a parent themselves.

I was going to write a whole load as a reply but I will settle for this.

I saw the grief, pain and agony that my father went through when my mother died. I felt a huge sense of relief when his new partner came on the scene, because I saw I larger than life character who had folded in on himself when he lost the only person that he thought he would ever love start to become his old self again.

My DDad's partner has not only given him a new lease of life she has literally saved his life.

I don't think that anyone thinks it is terrible that fil met someone else. But he hasn't thought about his son's perspective in all this. He has a new partner but his son doesn't have a new mum and by extension the grandchild doesn't have a new granny.

This would have gone so much better for fil if he had given his son time to grieve before introducing a new woman into the mix, however lovely she may be.

Italiangreyhound

But you're still imposing a non blood relative on your relatives and demanding that they also consider them as your child, and their relative.

It's not what most people do with partners, but I'm just trying to point out the unfairness of saying that a new partner has nothing to do with the original family because it's not blood related.

Aderyn2016

How long would be an acceptable time?

A few of my friends have lost parents, one not long after the other, between 6 months and 2 years.

Some of them just stopped, they sort of melted away as if the most important part of them was missing. Given the choice I am sure that they would prefer to have a parent that was alive with a new partner, than buried with their other parent.

A friend of mine has a mother with depression barely able to function. My own mother complains when she has days when she doesn't talk to anyone. Her friends have health problems and have also lost partners.
I just couldn't be angry with her for getting together with someone else.

Lweji

Thing that stands out for me is (as been said) that the OP's DH is restricting his own time with his Dad by seeming to go limited contact.

That the DS doesn't know his Dad's partner is down to him (DH) not allowing it (his son, his choice) in the end everyone is going to lose out from this.

I remember ranting to my mother about how awful mil's new partner was, and her saying "He makes her happy. And it means she's not alone so you and dp don't have to worry about her. Think yourself lucky"

I agree, Boney. And have said something similar earlier on the thread.
It's a shame.

Boney, I think that when you are a parent, even of adult dc, you owe it to them to consider their feelings. 4 months after they have lost a parent, is too soon to expect complete acceptance of someone new. Maybe some adult dc can manage it but others, like OP's dh cannot and his dad owed him time to grieve without forcing him to deal emotionally with a new relationship that replaces his mother. Honestly, I don't believe that 4 months gives anyone sufficient time to come to terms with their loss. I don't understand how people can move on from the loss of a loved spouse that quickly tbh.
I can't really put a time frame on this but if a person is going to start up something new shortly after their spouse dies, I think they owe it to their kids to be discreet about it until they have had time to grieve. It is selfish imo to say that they must move on in the same time frame.

My dad lost his df several years before I was born and he was also upset when his dm remarried. Her new husband did fulfill the role of gf for me, my db and our cousins, but dad came up with an alternative name, which I won't say in case it outs me. Apart from respecting my dad's feelings about usurping his df's place, having an alternative name also taught us early on that this was my dad's stepdad, not his dad, ifswim. I'm glad my df allowed us to get to know his stepdad as he was a nice man who made my dgm happy and I think we all gained from welcoming him into the family. My df adored his df but he knew his mum was lonely. I actually think people who were happily married are more likely to get remarried as they miss the companionship and it's actually a compliment.

*I think it's pretty juvenile to see this as just 'playing happy families' when it's another adult's happiness at stake.

For some reason, perhaps cultural, people seem to have their parents on pedestals and be very distressed when they turn out to be human and do slightly crazy things in grief that turn out fine, like meeting a nice person.

But parents are expected to suck up any old son or daughter in law, plaster on a smile, not say anything, play happy families when their children bring home unsuitable people. I can think of families where the children's choices of partner are nothing short of disastrous and have ruined family occasions and happiness for decades, but for some reason this is acceptable, but some widower finding a nice woman to spend his remaining days is outrageous.

I think as an adult yourself, you sometimes have to dig deep and realise that by continuing to behave in a childish way, you are simply remaining a hurt child yourself. I do get it, I have a step-mum (not asked for, she was the OW) who I didn't speak to for two years when I was in my early twenties, but over time I grew up, realised she was a nice person, and now love the fact that more people care for my children/send them presents/make them feel special.

If you can't, you can't, but then you have to explain to your child why this is ok behavior, and why they can't ever speak about the 'Granny' who lives with Grandad (they may have heard about Grannies on Peppa Pig).*

Perfectly summed up by @foureyesarebetterthantwo

The OP's husband is probably wondering how much his father actually cared for his mother. She'd been buried barely any time at all and his father moves onto another partner.

If I were him I'd be concerned my father hadn't actually given any damns about my mother, and I'd probably reevaluate my relationship accordingly.

I definitely wouldn't want some random woman being a grandparental figure to my child, and because I'm a bit of a fucked up person I'd have no qualms making that quite clear.

Grandad can be as happy as he likes, he just doesn't get to introduce his partner as a grandmother without permission. Doesn't like it? Tough, his choices have created the issues he's having.

Aderyn2016

But shouldn't adult children consider their parents' feelings?

Their bereavement is not more important than their parents' or their happiness.