To talk to FIL about his partner not being our DS's Granny....

[Writerwannabe83]

Almost three years ago my MIL died very unexpectedly when DS was 4 months old. Throughout the pregnancy she had been so excited as she so desperately wanted a grandchild but due to her being unwell she only ever got to hold him once before she died. DH understandably took her death very badly and I know it breaks his heart that she never got to be in DS's life and it kills him that DS will grow up never knowing who his Grandma was (he's now almost three).

About four months after MIL had died our FIL came round and announced that he had met someone - my DH was very upset about this as it felt as though hardly any time had passed since his mother's death and he actually walked out of the room because he didn't know what to do or say.

My FIL has now been with this woman for 2.5 years and my DH has only met her once (and even that occasion was an accident) and he does not wish to get to know her. I think the fact she came on the scene so close to his mother's death has caused him to put up a brick wall and I think he's angry with his dad and deflects this on to the woman. I have met her plenty of times and she seems very pleasant but DH and I never really talk about her, she just generally isn't mentioned. FIL never makes reference to her when my DH is around.

Anyhow - yesterday my FIL looked after DS for me for a few hours and his partner was there too which is obviously fine. However, when DS came back he started referring to FIL's partner as 'Granny' and when he did it for the first time it really stung DH. DH later said to me that the woman isn't DS's Granny and he was really upset to hear it come out of DS's mouth.

We don't know whether FIL is referring to this woman as being our DS's Granny, or whether the woman herself is doing it, but either way my DH is finding it hard to make sense of. He's adamant his dad would never allow another woman to refer to herself as 'granny' (out of loyalty to his past wife) but I'm not so sure.

DH has said that if DS is being told by either FIL or the other woman that she is 'granny' then that's it, he won't let FIL look after DS anymore. He said he won't have DS growing up thinking FIL's partner is his Granny as his mum will always have that title. I think DH feels like his mum's role is trying to replaced as that's how he felt when FIL started dating again so soon.

I feel like I need to say something to FIL because it's really upsetting DH but I don't know what? I can just see this snowballing and I don't want it to create even more family division.

OP

Apologies if this has already been mentioned and I've missed it in the long thread. But you said your DH is glad his dad isn't lonely but hasn't forgiven him for moving on so fast.

Honestly, HONESTLY, loving again after being widowed is not moving on from ones late spouse. The only thing you can do is wither and die too (which feels easier, to be honest), or keep on keeping on, and amidst that plodding forward if you meet someone who makes you feel alive again it doesn't stop you being sad. You can be happy and sad all at the same time - I am, a lot.

Someone linked to it above, I think - there is research showing that people with the happiest marriages are the most likely to meet someone else quickly. Because when you lose a spouse who was not just your lover but also best friend, the loneliness is agonising, plus all ones associations with long-term romance are positive ones.

I think grief counselling for your DH would be good.
And I think it's fair enough to ask that your FIL's girlfriend isn't called granny - not when they're not living together or married; too confusing if they break up and he gets a 'new' granny.

Your dh is the problem. My dh is happy that filhas a new relationship following the passing of Mil. It's company for him and they take care of eachother.
Your dh is quite frankly being a,total idiot in not accepting and welcoming this woman into your family. Perhaps counselling would help him

Hm, I understand totally that my FIL was so quick to get a new partner because he was desperate not to be alone, and I think it is great that he has found someone to spend time with rather than sitting at home alone and sad.

But I can still also understand totally that his children don't see it in the same way as I do... and tbh probably wouldn't appreciate it if I suggested that they should!

I've been in your DH's situation. A child can never have to much love, I'm sure your DS would love a granny and may have come up with the name on his own. But if they don't live together then I don't think it's appropriate for her to be known as granny and your DH really needs to get to know her.

'That's not even remotely being part of the family.'

Because she's not! They don't live together, they aren't married, they've been going out for a relatively short period of time in the scheme of things. She's 'granny', okay, then they split up and he gets a new granny? It's not healthy for every BF or GF we have in life to become 'part of hte family'. It seems like now, everyone you date for more than 5 minutes is a 'partner'. They don't even live together, calling her 'granny' is pretty inappropriate.

He doesn't have to accept her as 'part of the family', either.

This is going in circles.

Who's to say that the FIL and this woman's relationship hasn't fully developed because of his son?

Would they be married by now, if he had accepted his father dating this woman?

Why doesn't he have to accept her as part of the family? Surely, his parents accepted his wife. Would he have accepted a rejection of the woman he chose to be his partner?

It looks like FIL feels she should be part of the family (unless she called herself granny). If that is the case, why shouldn't she be accepted?

Lweji - because people have choices.
OP's FIL chose to get together with a new partner only a few months after MIL's death. He didn't care how that affected other people. He put himself and his happiness first - which is his right and his choice.
OP's DH is entitled to do the same. He can choose to put his own feelings first as well.

When the FIL dismissed everybody else's feelings, he left the door wide open for everyone to dismiss his.

Yes, people have choices. And the husband here has chosen to be selfish in relation to his father, and not to consider his father's feelings.
It's not him who has to spend days alone.

Lweji, fil can only make choices for himself. He can't force his choice onto his son. If fil had been a bit more careful of his son's feelings initially, maybe the son would be more open to the new partner now.

Thank you everyone for your replies - I've just caught up with them after being at work. They are all really helpful and it's nice to read opposing arguments on how the situation has presented.

In the lead up to MILs death it wasn't expected she would die at all. She was ill but it wasn't anything that had a diagnosis, she wasn't having treatment of any kind, she wasn't under hospital management or anything, it was just an illness that was being investigated by her GP. She had to go to A&E one evening for blood tests, she was admitted, she suddenly went downhill and within theee days she lost the ability to move and speak and we were told there was nothing they could do. She then died approximately 10 days later in not very nice circumstances - it was all incredibly upsetting. So in the space of two weeks we went from her being unwell to turn being dead. Even now, none of us can really make sense of it.

Following her death I very rarely saw DH as he went to stay with his dad very frequently. DH felt so guilty because I obviously had a young-ish baby and he didn't want to be away from us but his priority was his dad and we just made the best of it. My DH found everything a huge strain as he was trying to be a strong support for his father when he was dying inside too. I don't think he could talk to his DF about how much he was struggling because he didn't want to cause more upset so he put his own emotions to one side whilst trying to be there for his dad. I would say for maybe the first 3 months or so DH was at his dad's 3-4 days a week but only in the evenings as FIL returned to work the week after MIL passed away as he said he couldn't bear to just sit in an empty house.

The whole thing was just incredibly sad.

That is terribly sad and also very good of your DH to spend so much time with his Dad after his mum's death. My dad was in his mid 70s when my mum died and of course I supported him but I didn't spend all my time with him.

It sounds as though your FIL needs people around hence why he started a new relationship so 'soon'.

I agree with you, Lweji - if OP and her DH discuss the 'granny' issue with FIL I think they might hear that they are now planning to marry or move in together.

I don't think that the FIL meeting someone else (and/or starting dating - not sure which it was) four months after his wife died is appalling towards his son's feelings. His son is an adult, not a dependant child who he would need to prioritise. The son gets to spend his evenings with his own wife and children, not lonely and heartbroken. And the FIL hasn't very quickly married her or moved in with her - he seems to have been sensitive to the fact that his son isn't ready to see him with someone else. So perhaps the granny thing was just a moment of confusion from OP's son, or maybe it was indeed a hint that things have become serious - OP won't know unless she raises it and discusses it.

Grief is a funny old thing, that affects people in very different ways. And everyone has an opinion on the conduct of widows and widowers, but there isn't a rule book and it's hard to know how to behave. Lots of those of us who lost a spouse react to learning that life can be cut bloody short by deciding that when happiness comes along it has to be grabbed with both hands. I haven't been in a situation where a family member has struggled with that, but if I were, it wouldn't have stopped my feelings for the man I met (now DH2) - it would have slowed down how quickly we made a lasting commitment, maybe, and certainly have added in extra guilt and confusion. And anger towards them, in all honesty, if they spent time being happy with someone they cared about, but thought it was disrespectful to DH1's memory if I got to do that, and that I should sit at home pining.

It really is possible to miss someone who is died to the point of agony, but then fall in love again and be happy and sad all at the same time. That's something that is quite hard to imagine unless you've experienced the tumult of those emotions, though. I'm so lucky that I had lots of people around me (including DH1's family) who could.

I must have not refreshed before starting typing, OP, so I cross posted with you there.
It's good that your DH spent so much time supporting his dad. It probably is no co-incidence that that point at which he stopped spending so much time there is when your FIL met his girlfriend; he can't deal with the loneliness, as Exit suggests.

Looking at this from the child's perspective, my own Mum's dad died before I was born. My Nan never remarried or had another relationship as far as I am aware, so the issue of what to call a new partner never arose. However, I've never thought of my Mum's dad as a grandfather because (to me) he was a photo and an annual visit to see a book of remembrance. Please don't be surprised if your DS says something at some stage which could be interpreted as thoughtless or insensitive about DH's Mum, as she will always be a story or photo to him rather than a tangible person he has cuddled and played with. He is far to little to understand.

I think the heart of the issue is that the child sees their parent moving on with their life, being happy with someone else but the child can't do that. They feel left behind and alone in their grief. The one person they think they should be able to turn to talk about their missing parent is busy being happy again.

The feelings of the child may not be logical or reasonable, but they are agonisingly real.

I think the heart of the issue is that the child sees their parent moving on with their life, being happy with someone else but the child can't do that. They feel left behind and alone in their grief. The one person they think they should be able to turn to talk about their missing parent is busy being happy again.

I think this is a large part of how my DH feels.

I suppose a child would feel like that, Timefortea, if their parent, say, took all the photos of their late spouse down, and refused to utter their name ver again, or something. I know more than twenty widows and widowers in real life (from my support group), none of whom have reacted that way after getting into a new relationship.
It is not moving on. Never, ever. That's not what is happening and it's not what it feels like. It's keeping on going, and it doesn't mean the love for the first spouse has diminished or is lost.
Falling in love again hasn't caused me take photos of DH1 down from the house, or stop talking about him, or stop visiting him in the cemetery - with my kids and alone. It hasn't stopped me missing him, it hasn't stopped me crying about the unfairness of it all.
But it did help me to start laughing again, in between the tears.

My FIL did take all the pictures down once his GF moved in a few months after MILs death.

FIL and DH don't talk about my MIL either really - she's as much the white elephant in the room as FILs new partner is.

No advice but can offer my experience. My fil remarried after losing his first wife 8 years previously. Dh wasn't at all happy about his dad's choice of new wife, because she tends to lie and misrepresent herself. But it's fil's life so we put up with her.

Dd came along six months later. We wanted to honour dh's mum, because she was so important to dh. So DD's DG was Grandad Heathen, her natural grandmother was Nanny Heathen, and fil's new wife was to be known her real name, with no honorary grandparent title.

SMIL looks after DD in the mornings because Dh and I both work early mornings. Dh is still derogatory towards her because she lies, and his objections make me wince, but she is a good guardian despite this. She has her own natural grandchildren so she is known as Nanny to them, and sees them regularly. Let me make it clear the lies are extraordinary stories involving herself, rather than anything to steal, or intentionally cause an issue between us all. My daughter knows what she is like and let's it slide.

I wonder if he feels that there is a possibility this woman was around before MIL died. Because it seemed so quick.

OliviaStabler that thought crossed my mind too.

Yes, it's exactly what I thought - my mother had been ill a few months before her death and my father spent more and more time out of the house on his hobby. Looking back he was probably with this woman. The sickening thing is her husband only died a month before my mother died. I know my father knew her before but looking back they must have been having an affair. The volatile reaction from my father when he was asked about this pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I just wanted to mention that my earlier post contained a typo. I meant that the husband was depriving the child of a loving grandparent not parent. That's to expat who took issue with this part of what I said.

Timefortea, you responded to me and I agree with Lewji's response to you "the OP's husband had someone to share his grief with on a daily basis, whereas his dad was alone at home and needed someone closer."

While four months might seem soon to some, that was 120 days or 1/3rd of a year. For any who do think it's too soon, how soon is 'allowed'? 6 months? A year? ten years? Forever? (yes, there are people who do think a widow/er should never have another partner).

Grief isn't rational but years have now past the the husband isn't even trying to accept this perfectly nice woman as his father's partner or as part of the family. Good things come of letting people in.

Would he rather this woman was unpleasant, cold and uncaring to his child? What does he think the inevitable result will be of refusing to let her enter the family and at every occasion making it clear he sees her as a usurper? For god's sake, invite her for Sunday lunch and end this rift.

I'm wondering if FIL (and MiL) new about her condition (if she had one) and had time to grief before she died.

What I am posting is that it may have been a surprise to the OP and her DH but the ILs may have known for sometime before.