To talk to FIL about his partner not being our DS's Granny....

[Writerwannabe83]

Almost three years ago my MIL died very unexpectedly when DS was 4 months old. Throughout the pregnancy she had been so excited as she so desperately wanted a grandchild but due to her being unwell she only ever got to hold him once before she died. DH understandably took her death very badly and I know it breaks his heart that she never got to be in DS's life and it kills him that DS will grow up never knowing who his Grandma was (he's now almost three).

About four months after MIL had died our FIL came round and announced that he had met someone - my DH was very upset about this as it felt as though hardly any time had passed since his mother's death and he actually walked out of the room because he didn't know what to do or say.

My FIL has now been with this woman for 2.5 years and my DH has only met her once (and even that occasion was an accident) and he does not wish to get to know her. I think the fact she came on the scene so close to his mother's death has caused him to put up a brick wall and I think he's angry with his dad and deflects this on to the woman. I have met her plenty of times and she seems very pleasant but DH and I never really talk about her, she just generally isn't mentioned. FIL never makes reference to her when my DH is around.

Anyhow - yesterday my FIL looked after DS for me for a few hours and his partner was there too which is obviously fine. However, when DS came back he started referring to FIL's partner as 'Granny' and when he did it for the first time it really stung DH. DH later said to me that the woman isn't DS's Granny and he was really upset to hear it come out of DS's mouth.

We don't know whether FIL is referring to this woman as being our DS's Granny, or whether the woman herself is doing it, but either way my DH is finding it hard to make sense of. He's adamant his dad would never allow another woman to refer to herself as 'granny' (out of loyalty to his past wife) but I'm not so sure.

DH has said that if DS is being told by either FIL or the other woman that she is 'granny' then that's it, he won't let FIL look after DS anymore. He said he won't have DS growing up thinking FIL's partner is his Granny as his mum will always have that title. I think DH feels like his mum's role is trying to replaced as that's how he felt when FIL started dating again so soon.

I feel like I need to say something to FIL because it's really upsetting DH but I don't know what? I can just see this snowballing and I don't want it to create even more family division.

The use of the word Granny wouldn't have come from DS as he's too young to understand what Grandparents are really - he's never even heard the word Granny before so the concept was obviously put in his head. And the fact that yesterday was the first time he's actually spent any time with her would probably indicate he wouldn't think of her as a grandparent even if he did understand what they were.

My DH is glad his FIL has company and isn't lonely, he doesn't want his dad to be alone, but I don't think he can forgive him for moving on so quick.

I just don't think he could bear to see his father in the company of another woman, in the form of a relationship, with someone other than his mother.

The first time (and only time for DH) we met her was when we went to visit FIL unexpectedly and she was there. We walked into the living room to see her sitting in "MIL's chair" and because she looks so similar to MIL it really was like seeing a ghost. It was so bizarre. My husband said hello to her and was polite etc but we soon made excuses and left.

I don't think DH can cope with seeing another woman on the house that his parents used to share together.

It's all such a mess

but on this issue I'm completely on DH's side. I don't like DS calling her Granny either because she doesn't even really know him.

OP you sound lovely but this issue isn't the issue. Have you tried raising the idea of grief counselling to your DH?

This situation is so sad - your DH is wasting time and missing out on more of a relationship with his dad, a relationship at all with his dad's partner and is also limiting his son's relationship with Grandad and MrsNotGranny.

Hope everything works out ok x

My MIL passed away before we had children. FIL has been with his new partner for years now and we are all pleased that he is happy again. However the children have never called her nanny or granny or anything other than her name. No one has specified that, it seemed to just be an unwritten rule amongst all of us. It doesn't mean we care less for her or the children have a lesser relationship. And actually I used to call 3 of my 4 grandparents by their first names too.

I'd just tell your DH to ask FIL that his partner just be referred to by her first name if it's an issue.

And can I just say as I'm cross posting with others, that I'm really sorry to hear of other people's bereavements and grief and the difficult situations they have found themselves in when new partners come on the scene. It's a very upsetting minefield It's a relief to see that what my DH is feeling isn't abnormal though.

This situation is so sad - your DH is wasting time and missing out on more of a relationship with his dad, a relationship at all with his dad's partner and is also limiting his son's relationship with Grandad and MrsNotGranny.

I 100% agree and have said this to my DH countless times but he just won't accept her and says he wants nothing to do with her. If he goes to visit his dad and sees her car there he will just turn around and come back home.

I think it's unfair on your son for him to be brought into adult arguments. If he's happy having a granny figure let him be, it's nice for him. There is nothing at all stopping your DH from telling him who his grandma was and making sure your son grows up knowing all about her.

Crapitas that is so sad. Even if people struggle to be on their own there does not seem to be any consideration for others in what has happened.

I remember my fil falling out with his father when he re-married at 86 , to an apparent gold digger . And was very upset at the situation. Unfortunately the gold digger who herself was 83 died first so in fact his father inherited her money . So it was a bit of a waste of emotions really.

it's a shame his DM didn't have time to write down any wishes as i can't think this would be what she'd have wanted in terms of DH and FIL being angry at each other and her GC being in the middle of it. Your DH really does need to prioritize grief counselling over this, his poor mum's been denied being a grandma but he can't make his son deprived of being close to his Dad and this women just because of that. Having kids does mean you have to be the bigger person quite a bit.

writer I'd be inclined to try and get him to explore the angle that this current outcome wouldn't have been what his mum wanted if she'd had more time to plan.

There is nothing at all stopping your DH from telling him who his grandma was and making sure your son grows up knowing all about her.

DH always talks about his mum to DS, always shows him photos and DS can pick Grandma out from a group photo and knows to call her Grandma. We go to the cemetery a lot with DS to visit the grave and have done since MIL died and DS knows that's where Grandma lives and he kisses the image of her on the headstone and says "Hello Grandma" etc so he knows that 'Granny' isn't Grandma but I guess DH doesn't want another woman taking on the grandparent role when it should always have been his mother's place in DS's life.

I'm always quite troubled by this whole idea that children even ones who are adults have to accept/welcome/become fully engaged with their parents new partners.

Yes it would be ideal if they did, but no they do not have to do so either for themselves or any children they have. People do not have to welcome other people's decisions to blend their family and the people who decide to 'blend' one only get to make that choice for the two people who are actually hooking up, they do not get to make it for everybody else.

YANBU. She isn't granny, she isn't even step granny. It is inappropriate for her to have this title and it needs addressing.

I grew up with a step grandad, he has always just been 'name' to me, never grandad even though I didn't know my real grandad and step grandad was married to my nan. DH's dad died before we met and MIL had an OM that she eventually married. I made it clear when we had DCs that he was grandad 'name'. He wasn't grandad, that was my dad and would have been DH's. They split anyway and neither DC saw him again or have any recollection of him so I'mglad he didn't have a proper family title as it would have looked like he just abandoned DCs. MIL has yet another new partner and even if they move in or get married, he will only ever be known by his name.

I hate this endless parade of other partners being addressed as actual family members to children. It is confusing.

This is such a sad situation really. Dh is punishing his dad for moving on too quickly, but is also punishing himself by having no contact with his dad. How would he feel if his dad died suddenly and he'd wasted all this time going nc?
He's also punishing his DS potentially if he makes him go nc too.
FIL hasn't remarried and from the post we don't even know if he lives with the new partner. They've only been together 2 1/2 years and I think it's quite reasonable that ds just calls her by her name. The important thing is the relationship between them, not the title.
Lastly, Dh is behaving very childishly by taking the stance that he has. However, it sounds as though he may be rather stuck in the grieving process and it makes me wonder whether he would benefit from some bereavement counselling.

'I'm always quite troubled by this whole idea that children even ones who are adults have to accept/welcome/become fully engaged with their parents new partners.

Yes it would be ideal if they did, but no they do not have to do so either for themselves or any children they have. People do not have to welcome other people's decisions to blend their family and the people who decide to 'blend' one only get to make that'

This ^^

It's really simple. He just tells his dad, 'I'm not comfortable with DS calling X 'Granny' or anything like it. Please stop doing that.'

How would your dh have been about blended families before his mother became unwell? Personally I've not been in your situation re loss, but my family is "blended" and while I don't mind people moving on to find joy in their own lives, I refuse to lend these precious titles to people i don't know or have history with. My mother invited me to send her husband father's day cards. He has daughters. I have a father. My mother's husband and I are family, but he is not my father and no one gets that title but my own, for better or worse. I don't get angry or try to defend my position. I just calmly explain.

I'm always quite troubled by this whole idea that children even ones who are adults have to accept/welcome/become fully engaged with their parents new

This was the issue with my father. He insisted that I 'accept' his new GF as family. I didn't know the woman from Adam and had no desire to. She told me that her and my father wished they'd met years earlier and they had no secrets from one another. Neither of them would understand that the relationship with my father was totally separate to her.

Your DH is not being unreasonable. Unless it happens to you you can't even begin to understand how it makes you feel. All I could think about was my mother and how she must be turning in her grave.

Hi Writer you might remember me from the sleep threads, our DSes are a couple of weeks apart in age . I've had a similar-but-different situation to your DH with my DF. My parents divorced after over 30 years of (unhappy) marriage when my DF met DStepmum. There was a lot of dishonesty involved and I went through similar anger and grief to your DH though of course for different reasons. DS was born 6 months after they were finally divorced. My DM is Granny and initially I felt very strongly that I wanted him to call DStepmum just (firstname). DF is Grandpa. I was similarly pretty angry when DF started referring to DStepmum as 'Granny'. After a year or two though my feelings changed and we now call DSM 'Granny X'. (Grandma and other names don't work for us for various reasons). DM remains Granny or occasionally 'Granny Y'. I don't have any real advice but thought it might be helpful for you and DH to hear about our situation and not go in with all guns blazing, as your and especially DH's feelings could perhaps change? Appreciate how upsetting it can be though!

I don't think your DH is being childish. I don't think he needs grief counselling. He is dealing with the death of his DM in his own way. He doesn't have to accept his DF's new partner. Your DS knows about his "real" Granny. I don't see the need for a title for a woman that DS will hardly see.

The only reason he'll hardly see the new partner though is because your DH is creating that. I'd understand more if they were divorced but this seems likely to lead to family estrangement.

I'll ask people again how they would feel if they adopted a child and their parents or siblings refused to have a relationship with them or treat them as relatives.

All four of my biological grandparents died before I was born. My maternal grandparents had divorced years before and were each survived by their spouses.
Those two people could not have loved me more and it was mutual. I'm so glad I got to also have grandparents. I miss them.

To be brutally blunt, the woman is nothing to your husband and doesn't have to be anything to your child either.

It's pretty and shiny for everyone to play happy families, but your husband is grieving and his opinion is worth more than that of a bunch of 'perfect world' proponents on mumsnet.

Ring your father in law. Tell him his bedwarmer partner isn't your son's grandmother in any sense of the word and never will be. Move on.

I would hazard a guess that most of the posters who are calling OP's DH 'selfish' and saying he needs to get over himself have not experienced the loss of a parent themselves.

I found it incredibly painful a year after my mother died when my MIL planned to visit us and this coincided with the first anniversary of my mother's death. Just the thought of her spending happy time with my children when my own mother never would again, was unbearable.

We had a similar situation in our family - not the same timescale but my DH idolised his dad who had died. From when our eldest was born it was clear in the situation that it was "Granny and Dave"..,.any time they were talked about by us we used the term Granny and Dave, the few references in cards etc to Grandad Dave were replied to with cards sent to "Granny and Dave".... no difficult conversations but it was clear to everyone inc the grandparents and the child that "Granny and Dave" was the names to be used.

Dave has since also died, we now have Granny and John...

My mum lost her mother young and I always called her mother in law granny. This was even though my mum didn't particularly like her (she was difficult). However, as a child she was just my 'granny'. I was quite upset at her funeral that we were not called her grandchildren. We were as far as we were concerned. So, I'd say try and see it from the childs perspective too.